DPS/Schroeder Ref. Turntable

I took flyingred's comment a bit different than Thom (i.e., not related to manufacturers letting customers be beta testers, which I think is a valid point).

I believe that (some) manufacturers design the very best product they can. Unfortunately, sometimes the price turns out to be higher than a market can support. Therefore, perhaps they trim some areas that will enable them to lower the price and give up a bit of performance.

Perhaps, then, the manufacturer offers the full-blown system with the "best" power supply... but then if you can't quite afford that (or think it doesn't matter), you have the option of getting the table with the lesser power supply -- and maybe getting 95% of the way there with the ability to upgrade later on. I.e., you won't have to settle for a maxed out but "lesser" overall design (lesser TT + lesser power supply), you can get the better TT + lesser power supply.

This is all irrelevant if the power supply in question was designed purely in response to customer issues/problems -- I'm not familiar with the DPS power supply.

Also, sometimes new manufacturing options become available with the passage of time, so it's not necessarily a conspiracy (and it's tough for me to say that as I am a HUGE skeptic myself).

Thanks, Thom, for shedding some light on delivery of those tonearms.

I'm glad to hear they're not out of production, although it does sound like in addition to a substantial waiting period, there aren't many arms coming out, period.

I've heard stories (reliable) of some folks being told that at this point they should not wait any longer, which was a sad realization for them.

I do wish the man very well with his recovery, as it surely would be a shame not to see any more of his arms around.

I'd have gone on the list myself, but I did not have the luxury of time (i.e., I "needed" (who really "needs" a tonearm) a better performing tonearm than what I had "desperately" -- I couldn't wait 16 months or longer/forever).

All the best to you.

Hi Ebalog,

I'm glad to hear they're not out of production, although it does sound like in addition to a substantial waiting period, there aren't many arms coming out, period.

Paraphrasing Mark Twain, rumors of Frank's death are greatly exaggerated.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Frank is back on track, producing and delivering tonearms on a regular basis and at his previous rate.

Any backlog relates to him falling behind last year (in 2006). Stated another way, production dropped off in 2006 but has returned to normal.

The way I see it, Frank has a few options:

1. To put a moratorium on orders until he brings his backlog back to a 4 month waiting period

2. To continue taking his normal order volume and somehow work to eat into the backlog

3. To continue with his normal production and accept the increased waiting period.

When I last checked, Richard Sachs was running a 39 month waiting period for his bicycles. You will not convince Richard, Frank, (or myself, for that matter) to hire a second shift to do work that we put our names on.

I've heard stories (reliable) of some folks being told that at this point they should not wait any longer, which was a sad realization for them.

I am puzzled by this comment, as I am equally puzzled by general statements made in mainstream media "we understand from reliable sources ... ". The only realization to be made is that some good things are worth waiting for.

Surely the decision to order a Schröder and wait is a personal one. As a dealer for Schröder, Triplanar and Dynavector tonearms, it's certainly in my best interest to sell the latter two, cash the check, and be done with it ... leaving aside any auditioning issues and which arm you'd prefer.

As an aside, I make it very easy for purchasers of Galibier turntables to work their way into a Schröder tonearm.

I look at it this way: In a world of instant gratification, not everyone has the makeup to wait for a hand-built product like a Schröder.

Don't get me wrong, it's great to reach a decision, write your check and get to come home with the goods. I would not argue against this in a perfect world. At the same time, reality dictates otherwise, and everyone has to make their own choices.

I guess I'm unclear as to why someone would not get on the waiting list - even when you discount the notion that owning a Schröder tonearm is like collecting fine art. A Schröder tonearm will not depreciate and will not wear out.

I'd have gone on the list myself, but I did not have the luxury of time (i.e., I "needed" (who really "needs" a tonearm) a better performing tonearm than what I had "desperately" -- I couldn't wait 16 months or longer/forever).

In this age of Audiogon sales, I find it difficult to believe that you cannot own an interim tonearm at little to zero net expense to you - an arm that you can subsequently sell when your Schröder arrives. See my comments above about how I make it easy to transition into Schröder.

Now, if you don't own a flexible turntable architecture like a Galibier, then perhaps changing tonearms presents a problem for you. I'd take this up with the dealer who sold you your turntable. What? You can't get service from him? I can't speak on behalf of other manufacturers, but the ease (or expense) of swapping armboards has never been an issue for Galibier owners.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Thom,

It's a Costco/Walmart world. Instant gratification and mass production are what people expect. Lasting quality, workmanship, and attention to the finest details are a thing of the past.

Thom:
Your post is an interesting and informative one, but it also makes a few points that beg clarification.

I know of at least one individual on the waiting list for, so far, more than 15 months -- and he's not heard a word that he's even near to the start of the "4-6 month waiting period". I would only say this is a "reliable source" as it is someone I know personally with no vested interest in the outcome.

He was told be individuals that, perhaps, live in the same region as the manufacturer that he should not expect anything. Of course, he could be pleasantly surprised one day when he gets the call for his payment and for production to "begin".

No one in this situation was trying to sell anything, and it is people that i know personally.

When I said "I don't have the luxury of time", it is not to say that I could buy a good (excellent!), used (non-Schroder) tonearm and basically pay nothing for it if I were to sell it down the line.

That said, we both know that certain tonearms NEVER come up in the used market. I happened to select one such tonearm as my choice, and it's the best I've ever heard. I have no intentions of selling as it, too, is a work of art and produces amazing music (most importantly). I think it blows away anything that I've heard...and anything I've seen on the used market.

Caveat: I have never had the good fortune to hear a Schroder reference.

So, you see, for me, I *could* go on the waiting list and sometime in the future (maybe in 6 months, 16 months, or 6 years) take delivery on it, but it is still unknown to me, and I could not say for sure that it would be better (or "different" but in a more pleasing way) than what I have. Also, I know that owning a tonearm at this level -- one tonearm -- is a dream come true. When I am in a more practical mood, I recognize that owning my current tonearm (as I'd never sell it) AND a Schroder just ain't gonna happen for me. :)

And (repeating myself here), while your strategy to buy something for the present (which could wind up being years) to sell at minimal to no loss is a good one, I saw no reason to "suffer" (being dramatic here) with a lesser arm than what I got. Does that make any sense?

To restate: If you found you wanted one of Mr Sachs's bicycles, for instance, (on a hunch because of what you *expect* them to turn out like...not because you've ridden one) but you needed something to ride in the interim (3.5 years)... would you (a) buy a used bike that was 85% of what you wanted and sell it at no loss or (b) buy a new bike that was actually the best thing you'd ever ridden to date? Effectively, I chose (b) in that case -- realizing that my selection may (or may not) exceed the "vaporware".

This would all be different if one knew the Schroder was the be-all and end-all in their own system, and it was just a matter of waiting it out. Many suspect it could be, but few, I would bet, have tested it in their system and also compared it to some other scarce (but less so than the Schroder) tonearm.

Also, while I appreciate that you are a solid manufacturer and quite dedicated, your implication that other manufacturers and/or dealers are less flexible is true for some but not all. The particular manufacturer I selected can supply an armboard drilled for any tonearm in short order -- that is not a constraint.

One thing is certain: No matter your dedication and or quality of service if one is a one-man shop (a la Frank or you for that matter), if one should ever have the misfortune to fall ill or experience some issue, that very high level of service one has provided may go by the wayside.

We all agree that Frank's medical treatments (rightly so!) should not suffer... so the question is what happens when one cannot dedicate as much time to their craft/passion?

If you had an extended stay in the hospital (this is hypothetical and -- god willing -- I hope you live a long and healthy life) or suffered from Frank's afflictions, is your turnaround for an armboard or a part for your 'table going to be affected? No one would hold it against you, but such things need to be recognized.

This is altogether different than a manufacturer/dealer providing poor service by choice, but the net for the customer is the same.

I do hope that the tonearms Frank is currently capable of producing are up to the standard of his legendary work of yore.

I'd love to be on his list, but it seems that one needs to purchase a TT as a "hook" to get in.

All the best, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever, as you seem like a stand-up individual and, I'm sure, manufacture a product that provides musical pleasure to many.