do tubes rock ??

EL34(my favorite tube) is a polite, sweet, laid back, warm, euphonic tube. 6L6 is trashy, gutsy, punchy, and dirty. Which is exactly why you don't see it much in high end audio these days(Mesa Baron and Golden Tube used it). It would get trashed by many a reviewer(playing jazz, classical, folk, chamber, etc.). Maybe not the best for overall performance, but definitely is ROCK. I guess we are saying the same thing when you point out the EL34 is superior to the 6L6/5881 in the Baron(upgrade for audiophiles). We are 180 degrees apart in what we think about guitar amps. Play around with a Mesa Boogie(which I consider THE best non-exotic guitar amp made today). They come with 6L6 standard, but also accept EL34(so you can A/B them directly, unlike comparing different amps). If the amp with 6L6 isn't balls out rock, nothing is. Now switch over to EL34; you can sit right down and play some jazz, fusion, or any other "clean and mellow" sound, and nobody will even blink. Switching from 6L6 to EL34, the amp goes from the garage to the living room.

Been where you are at. The best amp that I would buy would be the manley's studio 440 or 550 they are used in the pro/studio enviroment with high output wattage. I have 4 Optmization Lab amps that were made for Boeing in the late 70's to test spl in jets. High output (250 w ea) with 6 el34 on each amp. I am seriously thinking about selling all my hi end stuff and going the pro studio powered monitors. I have 4 of the big tube amps, 1 burmester 250w 2 adcom 565 mb 300w ea 4 ml electrostat speakers and a pair of german physiks boarderland $$$ and still cant rock like a good club or bar band. I want to move alot of air and sock you in the gut feeling that I want. Never heard the Theil's are you happy with them and what else did you listen to (Dunluvy 5 or 6 's ) But these amp's I have are built alot like the manleys and are rack mounted and have been modified for the Hi Fi enviroment Good Luck Kelton

I am currently auditioning a Music Reference RM200, a 100 WPC tube amp, with my Wadia 830, and Medowlark Hwron i speakers. This amp rocks. It has a huge soundstage and incredible imaging. Jonathon Goldman, of Goldman Audio in Ct., has been great about letting me audition amps in my home. I have been searching for the right one, and it is great to have a dealer who is willing to let me spend time with a number of pieces. I will also demo the Bel Canto Evo, and the new Marsh solid state. If anyone wants info on how to contact him, feel free to email. Back to the RM200. This amp is a great piece. It does everything solid state amps do and is holographic in soundstage and imaging. It was first recommended to me by the people at Meadowlark Audio, who use it to demo their speakers.

Hey Trelja, Glad to see we politely agree to disagree ! Can you use a mesa baron as a guitar amp ? How would you connect the outputs of the guitar into this ? Now that I'm thinking of it, I'm going to retube my fender with some alternate 6L6 tubes. I've always used stock issue groove tube 5881's (aka Sovtek 5881WXT), but I want to experiment. The sonic descriptions of the sovtek 6L6WXT+ and even more the Svetlana 6L6GC look interesting.

John_l, I too am glad we politely agree to disagree. I have never thought about using the Baron(it's stereo) for guitar. As I am not around them now, I am not sure... My friend just got a Boogie last month, and let me tell you, it kicks SERIOUS butt. He has had a Peavey 5150, and a few Marshalls(including some cool vintage ones), but this is far and away the best. We threw some Groove Tube(JJ for people who don't want to get ripped off) EL34s(just have to flip an internal switch, the amp takes care of the rest - bias, etc.) a guy had laying around in it, and it totally changed the amp. But, he much prefers the sound of the 6L6 in this amp. Just his taste in music. Trust me on this one, if you want a KILLER replacement for your 6L6, try the Sovtek KT66. Yes, they cost 3X more($60/pair) than 6L6, but you will be stunned at their tone. Great conversing with you!