Technics SL1200MK2 Cartridge Discussion


Hi,

I'd like to have a thread on cartridges that work with the Technics SL1200MK series tables.

I want to buy a Technics SL1210MK2 (the new black version from Musicians Friend) and need a cartridge recommendation. I am using a Musical Fidelity A308CR preamp that has MM/MC capability. My amps are Bryston 7B ST's and I have a pair of B&W Signature 800's on the way to replace my N801's. The MF Preamp is rolled off on top and the system is very listenable for long lengths of time. I'd describe it as detailed, but not too bright.

I really want to try the Technics table as it is relaible and inexpensive ($400 shipped or less for a used table if I go the ebay route). Please do not try to talk me into a different table. I had a VPI Scout and Dynavector 20x (High output) that I sold because I just wasn't using it. I'd like to keep this cheap so that I have decent TT available when and if I want to use it.

What can you recommed for a cart? I'd like to keep $160 to $200 as a max and stay lower if possible. Here is what I am considering:

Denon 103 (not the R)
Denon 110
Denon 160

Audio Technica 440 MLa

Shure M97xe

I do not know what carts work well with the Technics tonearm. I know that it is light and some threads recommend a Sumiko headshell for the Denons. What do I need to know here before buying a table and cart.

Thanks.
tigerwoodkhorns

03-07-08: Tvad

03-07-08: Drubin
I'm sure this has been discussed, but let me raise it again. Is the SL1200 KAB genuine competition for belt-drive tables of the Linn/Spacedeck/Scoutmaster/Gyrodec/etc caliber?
I will be shocked if any seasoned Linn/Spacedeck/Scoutmaster/Gyrodec owners answer yes.
How about in a shootout against a Music Hall MMF9 (pre MMF 9.1)?

Here and here.

He preferred (and bought) a KAB-modded Technics SL1200 with KAB/Ortofon Concorde cartridge ($1172 total) over a nearly twice-as-expensive Music Hall MMF 9 with Music Hall Maestro LOMC cartridge.

That doesn't indicate that it would compete with a Gyrodec (something I'm dying to find out myself), but it does indicate that it's competitive with a belt drive rig just north of $2K.

And I can tell you this: I have an SL1210 M5G w/fluid damper, spindle clamp, Sumiko headshell, DL-160, Oracle Groove Isolator sorbothane mat, and brass cones/butcher block/Vibrapod platform. It is very musically involving. If I'm in another room while spinning LPs, the sound compells me to come back and sit down in the sweet spot. I can definitely "hear the room."

But most telling of all, when I go to the local analog shop and listen to a P5 or P7, it doesn't make me feel like I'm missing out on something big. The P7 did sound more relaxed--or does that mean the Technics sounded more propulsive? I'm the kind of worry wart that if I hear something significantly better, it tortures me until I can attain it, whether it's a guitar or amp, ride cymbal, or snare drum. But I'm happy with my fluid-damped SL1210.
Johnnyb53, I have never read any post on Audiogon where a Linn/Spacedeck/Scoutmaster/Gyrodec...or MMF9 owner switched to a KAB Technics, and I doubt we'll see more than one or two, if that. I'd be interesting to know if the author of the KAB/MMF9 article still owns and uses the KAB Technics, or if he has changed tables.

You're preaching to the choir since I'm a KAB owner, however my only other experience with turntables is a Thorens TD160 MK II and a MMF-7.

03-09-08: Tvad
Johnnyb53, I have never read any post on Audiogon where a Linn/Spacedeck/Scoutmaster/Gyrodec...or MMF9 owner switched to a KAB Technics, and I doubt we'll see more than one or two, if that.
No argument here. The TNT comparo was the only thing I could think of.

Marc Phillips, who writes for Tone PUblications and a couple of other online review mags, uses a Michell Orbe SE as his main rig. Tone Pubs bought him an Technics SL1200 to review to see if the hoopla is well-earned. Unfortunately, the review only looked at the bone stock Technics with a few cartridges. The original intent was to first compare the SL1200 to the similarly-priced Rega P2, and then try the Technics with a wide variety of aftermarket mods, but none of that has materialized and Phillips is evidently swamped reviewing other gear and music that claims a higher priority for their readership.
If you are looking for a comparison, I like the Technics more than my old VPI Scout/JWM9/Dynavector 20x. Here is why:

Out of the box, the Technics feels like it in a thoroughly engineered product. The VPI, with its separate motor assembly (which has a pretty cheap feeling motor inside of a pretty case), rubber belt and pointy feet felt more like soemthing that was built in a garage.

Setting up the VPI was just a pain (and I am a former engineer and very mechanically and electronically competent). The tonearm was really heavy and balanced on the top of a pin, it never felt right. Trying to set the tracking force was a nightmare. It had a set screw and the weight just slid (poorly). You could never seem to hit the right spot. To set the balance, quote, "get a coffee stir and put on top of the tonearm. Make sure it is level." They could have at least given you a stir. I had to go to work the next day and get a stir. The tracking force had to be set with a guage that I had to order. It took a few weeks until I could actually set it up at all. The VTA was adjustable, but the guide never said how to set it. To level the table was also painful. I just kept setting the feet, over and over until it was straight in all directions. Then there is the speed. How do you know when you are at 33.3 rpm? You don't. You just move the belt back and forth on a spindle and guess. I played a CD that was the same as a record and the TT was way off. Kind of hard to tell if you have not been doing this for years. Oh yea, I forgot about the anti skate. You twist the tonearm wires. How do you know when it is right? You can only go in certain incraments so that you can plug the wire back in. Finally, do you like dust all over your TT? You had better because the VPI has no cover. You want a cover for your $1600 table. Plan on spending as much as the entire Technics table for one. And dusting the TT every time you want to use it is no fun at all. It made me not want to use it and in fact I rarely used it and eventually sold the table, cart and 16.5 cleaning machine.

Now the Technics SL 1210 MK2. It is just so well engineered. Solid as a rock. You unpack it. set the voltage, pop on the plinth and a nice thick rubber mat. OK, that part is done. How about setting up the tonearm? I had my trusty force guage ready. Hmm. OK, you mount the cart on the headshhell, which is easily removeable without any tools. Thankfully the wires on the headshell are thicker than a human hair and have nice sturdy feeling ends that easily slide onto the cart with a fingernail. Pop the headshell on a plastic alignment guage, line up the cart and tighten down. Then put the headshell back on the arm. Counterweight. Just put in on the back of the arm. Balance the arm by screwing the weight. No 30 minutes of fighting with the counterweight. Then the force. Lest see. 1.4 g. Set the scale at zero and then dial in 1.4 g by moving the counterweight and dial at the same time. About 10 seconds to do. How about antiscate? Ready to twist wires and guess? Nope, just set the dial the same amount as the tracking force.

VTA. Hmm. This is a tough one. Measure the height of the cartirdge, look it up on a chart. You set it by flicking a lever to unlock, dial it in and then flick the lever to lock. Now you are done. It looks like you can set it on the fly is you want.

Here is the part that is really nice. My VPI had a soundstage that was always between the speakers. Maybe due to improper VTA. I could never seem to get it "perfect." The Technics is set up in 1/2 hour and it is right. The soundstage is wider than the speakers and has a nice weightly bass. Before eveyone flames me for being technically illiterate, I am a former engineer and have significant electrical and mechanical skills and have been fabricating for 20+ years.

On to using the Technics. It gets up to speed instantly. Hit a button and it is in 45 to clean the record. Then back to 33 to play. Hit a little button and a light pops up (I love this. I had to use a separate light for my VPI). Is the speed set right? Of course, just look at the strobe on the left side. Perfect 33. So you heard that Rega's have PRAT that may due to being 1% fast. OK, just use the slider and dial in 1% fast (while the record is playing). The arm lift mechanism is really smooth and not clunky at all like the VPI's. After dropping the tonearm on the record, feel free to put the dust cover down, the needle will not skip.

The sound is rolled off (I am using an Audio Technica 440) and has a nice heavy bass, just like vinyl is supposed to sound.

Anyone considering getting into Vinyl, try the Technics. If you don't like it, you can get almost your full purchase price back on ebay. I just wish that it was a fully automatic table, but re-engineering this table would ruin it as the price would rise. I'm sure that there is a home version (I think the 1300).

A friend has a Project that he gave up on and went for a Technicks linear traking table. He has the really heavy all aluminum model (DL10 or something like that). The audiophile tables feel like under-engineered sports cars that have constant annoyances. The Technics feels like a Lexus. Solid and just starts up and works - very well.

I am using very respectable equipment with the Technics (B&W N801's, Bryston monoblocks, Musical Fidelity A308CR preamp). The Technics is not out of place or outclassed at all. It just sends a beautiful signal to the speakers (so far). After I spend a few months with it I will form a more critical opinion, but I regret the VPI and and very happy with this purchase. For under $500, if I barely ever use it it is worth it, especially sice it will not be collectng dust because Technics has the decency to include a dust cover!

A quick question. I friend lent me a Micro LC80W cartridge. Has anyone used this cart on a Technics? It is a Moving Coil. Do I need a Sumiko headshell? The cart actually feels pretty heavy and may need the counterweight that is supplied with the Technics table.
Wow awesome response Tiger! I got my Technics MK5G two days ago...This thread pushed me over the edge...I've got a Wright Sound with the step up transformer...Denon 103 and a Fluid Damper here I come...