Own a TW-Acustic Raven One?

Stingreen,

I am curious, did you compare the Superscoutmaster to the Aries 3? I think that the Superscoutmaster is a really good table; maybe better really than an Aries 3???

At the time I bought the Superscout, size was important to my wife (I guess to all women....) Anyway, my dealer had both on display, and the Superscout sounded more like my idea of what real music sounded like. Of course, the SS had 2 motors, the heavy platter, the mini feet and the SDS, whereas the Aries didn't. As you know the SS can accomodate the 10.5 arm, however, if your intention is to get a different arm than the VPI, the Aries can accomodate all arms. I suspect equally tricked out, both tables sound similar.

Stiltskin,I hope you don't think I am criticising you for your tastes and experience.You're a great hobbyist and I enjoy your posts...but...

I personally respect your enthusiasm,yet once a hobbyist makes a buying decision,and likes "his" new product(which you definitely should)the natural tendancy is to "lean a little" in this direction!....

I do it too!!

I am sure you have a good approach to things audio,but even though you claim to have heard an almost identical table/arm/cartridge comparison it is still very hard for me to believe the differences between the "particular" VPI mentioned was a cause of the "perceived difference",which was supposedly "significant".

The only way I could buy that,is if it was an older VPI table,or not such a good set-up,or lower in the product line.....The top stuff is too damn good!How do I know this.....because I've heard "them" way too many times,and I tried(really,really hard)to not like them,since I own a competing design,and my friends are "SO" in the VPI camp!!

No doubt you did hear the claimed differences,but I'll bet other factors were at play!VPI does not use an MDF armboard(on the tables I have heard at friends)and the business of rubber belts is "way" overstated.Sorry!-:)

I mean...if the vta/vtf/or cartridge age was off even the slightest(not to mention table level,or speed of platter,etc)this could easily influence the differences you say you heard.....Not to mention the two individual table's set up!

It is really hard to A/B a table/arm cartridge against a competing design,at this level!The "slightest" difference in a "single/subtle" parameter can be the deal killer.

I've heard the VPI TNT's way too many times,at numerous friends' homes and believe me,these guys are absolutely "as or more" serious than "many"!

There is NO way the tables would still be in these "serious" systems if they did not "do" music naturally!!

We are talking about some of the "best" LP collections in a hobbyists home(yeah,software that most of us so easily dismiss,because we are "SO" in love with hardware)on the premises of "these" particular VPI owners that I am referring to,so there is real credibility here as far as I am concerned!!!

One friend of mine has been priviledged to actually do all the Mercury,and a good majority of the RCA LP reviews for TAS on "his" VPI table/tables.This has been updated numerous times,and I have heard them "like a zillion times" over the years,on these discs.The tables are are worthy of their appeal,and have proven themselves to me....Yet,like your experience,there were times I could find "perceived" problems.These worked themselves out,in the long run,and were NOT the tables' problems in the long run!

BTW,a nice HRX with tonearm,pricewise, is a damn good deal,IMO....Not to mention "local support" if needed....Something too many folks easily dismiss,until they "need" a dealer's support!

A long wait(for service,or parts,or a dealer who does not support the stuff he sells,particularly if from abroad)for product problems will easily cause one to "find sonic" problems previously unheard.

I have NO axe to grind,and don't even own a VPI(but know them very well)but hearing the "classic LP's" we all have cut our teethe on over SO MANY YEARS on VPI tables,leaves me in no doubt they are "damn accurate"!!

One does NOT need to prefer the product,for whatever reason,but it still does not take away the fact they are accurate tables......

I am only attempting to be fair and balanced,and this should take nothing away from anyone liking the nicely machined Raven(another good table).

No doubt you have a wonderful table,but even "it" can be picked on,if one wanted to go in that direction.Like anything else the hobby has to offer.

Best

i would think most listeners have to take a leap of faith with tw tables since there is no local dealer unless you live in ny or know a tw owner nearby. i can assure you though that if you want a robust, dense, visceral presentation with powerful bass then this is the right table for you. did you check out the stereomojo and tone audio reviews? i think there is a forthcoming tas review as well. put your order in early,...there's quite a waiting list.

Stickman451,

I have listened to the VPI's in a variety of systems and had the opportunity to directly compare against multiple turntables. My only opportunity to compare the Raven and VPI was at RMAF. Obviously not the ideal way to compare, but the best I could manage.

The VPI is a great table. Both the Raven and VPI provide an upgrade path as funds permit. If you are looking to make this level of financial commitment, don't rely on anyone else's ears, try to find a way to listen to both.

Good luck,