ZYX UNIverse X-SB 0.24 sounding "too much"


Hello everyone.

Recently acquired UNIverse x-sb 0.24 and using it on a Naitais Lenco L75 + Ringmat Anniversary with SME3012R arm and it sounds "too much". Comparing to the XV1s (tracking at 2.10), it sounds "too much", female vocals are too much. Another way to put it is too dynamic(?). It's doesn't sound worse than the XV1s, but very very different. Currently tracking at 1.95 or there abouts. Any ideas? Adjustment, tweak issue or loading, or tracking angle?

Rest of vinyl front end is Audio Note M7 with Bent MU 1:20 Silver transformers. Universe loaded to about 110 ohms. XV1s run on open load 125 ohms.

Regards,
David
linnmaster
OK. I am TOTALLY confused with what's going on, and what's what.

Bent MU SUT's ... the posts for loading using different resistors, is that on the primary or the secondary? I think it's the secondary.

Load of phono stage is 50 Kohms. SUT's are 1:20. Hooked up with no additional loading, the cartridge sees 125 ohms. Yeah?

This setting sounded fantastic with the XV1s, but a tad bright and accentuated highs with the UNIverse.

Adding additional 200 Kohms resitors to the posts on the SUT's, the cartridge sees 100 ohms. Yeah?

This made the UNIverse sound better, not so dynamic and bright, but a tad too dulled down. Logic would mean that I needed somewhere in between 125 and 100 ohms for the UNIverse to sound optimum.

Seeing how people have loaded their UNIverse's way down below 10 ohms, and around 6.54 ohms, I gave it a shot and put a 3.9 Kohm resistor across the posts on the SUT's. This would mean that the cartrigde sees 9.04 ohms. Yeah? This sounds really really good. With a 2.7 Kohm resistor (6.4 ohms), it was a tad too closed in for my tastes.

How is it that the UNIverse is sounding so good wayy down at 9.04 ohms and also (potentially) between 100 and 125 ohms?

And also, is 100 ohms total on SUT's + phono the same as 100 ohms on an active gain phono?

Many thanks for everyone's advice.
David, have you contacted John Chapman about the best way to proceed with these two cartridges? He's a great guy and I'm sure he could help you get this working very well.

I own the XV-1s and I've heard the Universe many times. The Dynavector is very good, but the Universe should easily surpass it.
Linnmaster,

I used 1:10 BentAudio Mu's for several years with my UNIverses (and other carts) before changing to an MC phono stage. You mentioned that some have loaded their UNIverse down to around 6.54 ohms. Since that is precisely the value we found optimum (in our system) I imagine you must be quoting one of my old posts. So first, let me say "hi"!

You're correct that the Mu's resistor posts are on the secondary.

All your math is correct too.

Your finding that 9.04 ohms sounds "really really good", but that 6.4 ohms was too low is unsurprising. Systems differ. The value that worked best in our system was not best when we tried our Mu's and UNIverse in other systems.

In our setup 6.4 would also have been too low. We found the acceptable range was very narrow. We could hear differences between 6.54, 6.55, 6.57, 6.58 and 6.59 ohms. These ridiculously tiny changes were made by putting TWO resistors on each set of binding posts. This fine tuning was the only way we could get the performance we wanted.

FWIW, Riken ohms sounded best to our ears/in our system.

How is it that the UNIverse is sounding so good wayy down at 9.04 ohms and also (potentially) between 100 and 125 ohms?
That hasn't been demonstrated yet. If it turns out to be true, my only guess is that, as Dave Slagle explained in a post last Fall, loading an SUT on the secondary only is an incomplete method that doesn't control winding resonance on both sides. Secondary-only loading controls resonance on the secondary side but may not be optimum for controlling primary side winding resonances. The optimal solution is to load each side (differently of course), with the primary side load controlling those windings and the cartridge. The solution offered by the Mu's is a compromise, and you may find one load controls one side better while another load controls the other side better. Oy!

That gets too complex for me! Our active stage is superior to our Mu's, so we haven't used them in quite a while. I'd urge you to experiment with two resistors on the posts however. That really helped us fine tune, and since your SUT is 1:20 while mine is 1:10, your setup will react more to small changes.

And also, is 100 ohms total on SUT's + phono the same as 100 ohms on an active gain phono?
No. They are quite different.

An active stage has no windings, primary or secondary, that need resonance control. The optimum sounding value with an active stage is almost always much higher than with SUT's, and the precise value needed is less critical. No one could hear a 2 or 3 ohm change through an active stage but, as you've just demonstrated, the same change through an SUT makes a huge difference. We play our UNIverse through the MC stage of our Doshi Alaap at around 200 ohms. I can switch to 75 ohms and the sound is slightly closed in, but the difference is far subtler than with an SUT.

The UNIverse, as Dan_Ed said, can surpass what the XV-1S is capable of, but it will require much work and fine tuning to make that happen. Unless everything in a system and setup are optimized to the nth degree, the UNIverse will only be a really good cartridge. It's ability to be an extraordinary, mind-altering cartridge requires a certain amount of fanaticism. Judging by your posts on this thread, I think you have potential. ;-)
Dan_ed:

Yes, I had checked my calcs with John when I purchased the 1:20 Mu SUT's and he confirmed my calculations. And he confirmed that the loading is done on the secondary. I did not ask him specific about loading configurations for the UNIverse or the XV1s.

You answered earlier that 100 ohms is about right for both cartridges, but not with SUT. So 100 ohms on active is not the same as 100 ohms on SUT? This is one thing I cannot make sense. I agree that there must be something I'm missing since everyone is loading down their SUT's down below 10 ohms ...