Dynavector DV 20X-L -- which MM will better it?

Hi Halcro,

good information and it seem to contradict what I had learned, which is: The A&R was a re-badged Garrott with a lesser / cheaper stylus initially. It then was may as you in the 80s bettered with a P-77 stylus from the Garrott P-77, which had been around (in parallel with the re-badged A&R). The Garrott having the same body as the A&R since it made no sense at all to have two different bodies. The body is usually not more 1/3 the cost of the stylus insert in any case.

One Information I have could patch into your rather different account, in that the all original A&R came from some Japanese maker. But it still seem the real tweak came from the Garrott brothers P-77 superior stylus.

I didn't know of their end --- what made them so unhappy I ask?

As to the 20X-L questions. It is in now way a disregard for the 20X-L using it a pegging / reference marker for were an MM could go -- or go past. I have most of my listening experience with my previously owned a GCPH. It a good cart for the money, which I said before ---- B U T then there seem some equally good or yet better MMs for even less money! To find these was the intention of the thread.

The A&R/Garrott P-77 is such an animal as far I as I hear it, and it came for free (at least for me...).

My current phono set-up uses ML326S phono-modules, gleaned from the ML-32 Reference pre, alas with out all the fancy remote options of the 32's modules.

Greetings,
Axel

Hi Axel,
I had the privilege of meeting John and Brian Garrott on several occasions at their various residences in and around Sydney in the early 1980s.
They took the English A&R P77 cartridge (a good performer in its own right), and hand tweaked it to new levels calling it the Garrott P77 which rightly led to their fame.
Eccentric and passionate, the two reclusive brothers married 2 Phillipino sisters and all four lived together in their various houses with the sisters baking biscuits and fussing over the boys whilst everyone called each other Luvvey. As I recall, John was the voluble protagonist to all who would ring or call by, whilst Brian sat quietly at the workbench, magnifying glass in left eye, painstakingly winding coils and preparing and gluing styli.
They passionately despised the MC cartridges then making their early claims for audiophile prominence and I vividly recall them sitting me down in front of their extraordinary Hi-Fi system (which consisted of stacked Quads and multiple sub-woofers), and playing a record with the then famous Supex MC cartridge and detaching the headshell to shift in their Garrott P77. Of course the P77 sounded better with none of the irritating and unnatural high frequency exaggeration common to moving coils at that time.
I had them re-tip my P77 at least 3 times during the '80s and, as no cartridge had ever sounded so sweet to me, I bought 2 of them.
I doubt that Brian and John were worried about the CD revolution as they never mentioned it to me, but the discovery that one of them had developed cancer saw the four of them commit ritual suicide in a pact that seemed consistent with their mutual inter-dependence although no note was ever found.
Regards
Halcro

Halcro,
thank you so much for sharing this insightful and touching story about the Garrott Brothers with us.
It makes their legacy even more valuable. They must have had some amazing bond to each other.
Amen
++++++++

1 min pause for thought...

I hope it's OK to add some more profane stuff, but at least it has to do with them. Bless them in any way.

So you say:
>>> Of course the P77 sounded better with none of the irritating and unnatural high frequency exaggeration common to moving coils at that time. <<<

Key word for me is AT THE TIME... I still think there is some of this 'time' going on right now.
What a HUGHE difference in listening between a really well tracking Lyra Dorian and a A&R P-77 ---- this stuff seems worlds apart.
Listening to this Lyra is topping my CD player in CD player terms, as I would put it.
Listening to that P-77 is listening to the music, and no 'distraction' by this 'sound-thing' as you put it so well: "irritating and unnatural high frequency exaggeration" --- right on...

B U T it seems that Hi-End is bound that way, that theme of "MORE of everything is better", not for me really.
This 'sound-thing' is kind of tedious, and leaves me unsatisfied, but I know that tastes differ and so be it.

Now what other cart would be in that 'Garrott P-77' vain I may ask?

Greetings,
Axel

Listening to that P-77 is listening to the music, and no 'distraction' by this 'sound-thing' as you put it so well:

I'm tending to agree with you Axel.
I somehow find myself listening to the music and enjoying it with the Garrot P77 whilst with the MCs it always seems to be a matter of......"is that detail still there?".......or "is that the right quantity of bass?"
As to the other MMs available?........I think you're getting a few useful suggestions in your other posts, not to mention the King of MMs.....Raul!?

Regards
Halcro

Hi All,
some more information of this history of A&R that seems to require a correction from my side.

+++++++
A&R surprised everyone again in 1981 by introducing a range of phono cartridges offering exactly the same magic formula as the original A60 amp.
The £14.95 C77, £39.90 P77 and £69.00 P78 were A&R designed, Japanese built cartridges using interchangeable styli, making for an easy and inexpensive upgrade path. With medium (6g) mass and a characteristically rich and powerful sound they worked happily in budget and high end tonearms alike.
The C77 featured a standard spherical stylus on an aluminium cantilever, ***the P77 a Weinz Paroc (parabolic oval cone)*** and the P78 added a Boron cantilever. All cartridges became instant hits and the C77 and P77 went on to sell in vast quantities, being joined by a mid range E77 brother and finally gaining a solid Magnesium body in place of the flimsy standard plastic item.
++++

Now that's when Garrott Bros. seems to have come into the game with their 'tweaked' version of the P77, I guess, or? So what I have is a straight forward A&R P77, period.
Lucky who has that as a Garrott version I think.

Interestingly that "P78 added a Boron cantilever" that sounds like the/a Garrott 'tweak' ?!
Can anyone add to this at all?
It still seems that the Garrott P77 seems to be after all this time one of THE MMs if you are looking for a top MM, so far my investigation goes.

Raul, HELP! Have you at all listened to the A&R P77 as compared to the Garrott P77?

Last point: is it true, in listening experience, that the current Garrott offering(s) are somewhat of a 'different' quality?

Thanks,
Axel