Considering analog...but nervous


Well, I've been here before. Once again, I'm thinking of venturing into the Analog world, but before doing so, I wanted to pose a few questions to fellow agoners to make sure my head (ears?) are in the right place.

Some Background: My current setup consists of a Modwright Transporter, Musical Fidelity KW 500 (hybrid tube pre/SS Amp), and Focal/JM 1027be speakers. My entire current collection is digital and I have NEVER owned Vinyl before NOR have I ever heard a high-end Analog setup.

My Tastes/musical likes: I am all about soundstage and imaging. Vocal accuracy is hugely important and instrument placing (hence, imaging) are part of what I look for when listening. Genre wise, mostly rock, folk, acoustic and blues. Some jazz as well. I generally try to stick to labels that produce good-sounding material...not over-compressed garbage.

On with the questions:

1. One of the biggest things that has kept me from trying Vinyl thus far is the concern of excessive hiss and crackle/pop that vinyl is known for. Is it safe to assume that purchasing new Vinyl and played on a higher quality setup will reduce (eliminate?) the pops and crackle sounds? I have no problem purchasing exclusively new vinyl, knowing full well that the process of shopping used is what draws so many to this market...

2. If I purchase new vinyl, only play it on a decent player, and store it properly, will I still have to clean it? How expensive is a cleaning machine? Are there (reasonable), less expensive alternatives to a cleaning machine?

3. Based on my integrated (tube-pre,SS amp) and speakers, are these a good match for Vinyl? Does anyone know if the KW 500 Phono input is adequate for a good turntable? My digital system has a tendency to be on the bright side for a lot of material, but not everything. Strangly, even at 31 years old, I can still hear up to around 19Khz so I'm a bit picky about the highs...

4. How complicated is the setup of the TT? Being that I've never worked wtih it before, I'm somewhat intimidated by the "setup" requirements of the equipment. What are the core requirements/knowledge to properly setup a TT.

5. And finally, the most subjective question of all. If I had a budget of about $1,000-$1,500 for a TT, Tonearm and Cartridge, what would be a good starting place? I'd obviously be looking for used here from Agon.

I know this was a long post so thanks for hanging in and reading it all :-). Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

-gh0st
fatgh0st

01-26-11: Raquel
... I'm listening to a performance of Liszt's 1st Piano Concerto on a Musical Heritage Society LP that I picked up at Tower's used classical bins many years ago that I doubt I paid a buck for, and it's sublime.
MHS editions have pretty much always been good in my experience as well. The performances are well-played, recorded, mastered, and pressed. And it seems that former owners on average took good care of them.

Here's another tip: Box sets from subscriptions (e.g., Time-Life) often arrive at the thrift shops unplayed. Many of the Time-Life classical box sets are culled from RCA Living Stereo vaults, a few later ones are EMI. I once picked up 16 4-LP Time-Life box sets of their "Great Men of Music" series, at $1 each. Performances are by Rubinstein, Heifetz, Julian Bream, Boston Symphony w/Charles Munch, Van Cliburn, Cleveland w/George Szell, etc., and are in excellent to unplayed condition.
Dan_ed: My listening room is in a basement so I'm assuming non-suspended would be just fine. Would you concur?

-gh0st
I started to type out a post in this thread a few days ago about suspended versus mass-loaded tables, and then bagged it because I feared it would scare people off. Tables tend to come in two varieties, suspended or mass-loaded, whereby the designer attempts to address airborne and physical vibrations via suspensions or mass-loading. Tables with suspensions deal with vibration by suspending part or all of the plinth and platter with springs, rubber grommets or rubber bands, etc. Examples are the Linn LP12 and the Basis tables. Mass-loaded tables address vibration by using engineered materials (something that's typically heavy or dense or otherwise structured to affect vibration, like carbon fiber) to evacuate vibration or convert it into something less harmful to playback. Examples are the Walker, the Galibier, and the Verdier La Platine. Some table designs are hybrids, like the SME's and some VPI tables. Every table needs to be on a good platform, but this is particularly important for mass-loaded tables, as they are quite susceptible to foot fall if not placed on an isolated surface.

I would strongly recommend that a beginner stay away from the suspended tables, particularly the Linn, which is capable of high performance, but a real handful to keep set up properly. It's a shame, as the Linn's are great for rock - they boogie.

Regarding LP quality, the above poster is correct - it's very much an album-by-album thing. A particular album release or particular artist may get a rep for good pressings (White Stripes releases, for example), but if you're talking about a classic rock album from the 70's, there may be fifteen different pressings and it's impossible to know what you've got until you clean it and spin it. Also and very importantly, you can't completely judge a used album by its face - many seemingly perfect looking LP's have serious groove damage and sound like shit because they were played with bad styli, while albums that look somewhat scratched up sound great because the scratches are surface-level and the grooves were not penetrated. Obviously ragged LP's are obviously ragged, but don't be surprised if you get a "mint"-rated LP that looks less than mint but sounds flawless.

Finally, I disagree with the posts that portray vinyl as being some kind of gigantic science project that will have you running around with a protractor, never knowing if your going to be able to play a record. It's simple - get a mass-loaded table, have it set up properly (and then resist the temptation to fuck around with the set up), vacuum clean every LP that comes into your possession before you play it, and thereafter, before and after you play a side, remove surface dust with a brush. Finally, pay your set-up guy $150 every year to eighteen months to come out and check your set-up. That's it - the only thing that's remotely inconvenient is the four or five minutes it takes to vacuum clean an LP - if you come home from the bargain bins with fifty LP's that need cleaning, pay your kid or some kid in the neighborhood a few bucks to do it for you.
Well-said, Raquel. For all the dire warnings in threads like this, as though several blocks of your city will explode if your cartridge alignment is off by a nanometer, let's remember that LPs have been the quality consumer musical medium of choice for 62 years. All through my childhood, teen years, and on into middle adulthood, people of all ages played LPs and ate dinner, danced, partied, and made love to the music they provided. True, you get better results with better turntable, arm & cart and closer tolerances in the setup, but it's still just geometry, not rocket science, and the worst that can happen is less-than-optimal sound, not a manmade disaster.
Yes, fatgh0st, I agree you can easily use non-suspended tables. Even within this sub-category, different tables will react differently to what they are sited on. My experience is that most do fine on a rigid table, but it doesn't always need to be a heavy one.

In general I agree with Raquel about footfalls, however, I have heard a couple of setups with 100+ lb non suspended tables on suspended floors and there was no footfall issue. Every situation is different, and there are ways to correct such a problem. Anyway, at the OPs price point I don't think we're talking about a massive table.

Absolutely. This is not rocket science, and there are excellent tools and information available. However, there are some delicate things around turntables. There are many more people who have jumped into vinyl, not achieved what their digital sources can do, and then dump it. If the rest of us are lucky these folk are simply disappointed. More times than not, they join the ranks of vinyl bashers. I think fatgh0st's experience would be greatly enhanced if he could connect with someone close to him. But in the least, he should seek setup help.