2. pc-audio
  3. 1385145497

What is the missing element?

My pc audio setup currently is as follows

PC (Lossless audio through Jriver) > V-link (first model) > Rega Dac > Jolida JD1501 > KEF LS50s

The Rega was probably the first component I bought that completely transformed the sound of my system. The difference it made was simply huge.

I then added the v-link to support higher resolution audio through the s/pdif connection. Again, the sound noticeably improved. The soundstage was bigger, and the music just sounded fuller. Without the v-link the music sounds quite a bit smaller through the usb input.

The Kefs were the next big leap forward for my system. I simply cant believe how big a sound these tiny little speakers put out.

Now, originally most of my listening was through the setup listed above. However, the addition of a thorens TD-160 has gotten me into vinyl in a big way and now I really don't like the sound of digital. By comparison it sounds like congested chaos, has a rough texture (especially noticeable in voices)and overall is just very brash sounding. I simply can not stand it at loud volumes. Nothing like the polite orderly smoothness I hear on vinyl which constantly has me turning up the volume.

I had all but completely switched to listening to music on my turntable while the rega was relegated to streaming pandora or youtube as background music and always at low volumes. Then, some time spent with a naim cd player reminded me just how good a digital source can sound. So my question is how can I bridge the gap? I have been reading a lot about jitter and I am wondering if that is holding the rega back. I've read that the v-link measures at right around 400ps while other digital transports like the audiophilleo measure well below 100ps. Would replacing the v-link with an audiophilleo or another s/pdif converter give me the sound I am looking for? Is the problem with the nature of computer audio itself and I should just be looking for a good CD player? I am slowly driving myself crazy over this.
128x128megido
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
"I have to confess that Cerrot makes an interesting case, is this convenience/ universal use(USB) vs ultimate sound quality(SPDIF sound card)?"

Absolutely not. Nothing to do with convenience. Has more to do with choosing among the various protocols available. Only Firewire, Ethernet and USB were options. USB makes perfect sense. Nothing wrong with the protocol. In fact is is actually superior to Ethernet in some ways: the connection is isochronous. Ethernet is never isochronous. This means that the stream cannot be interrupted by other message traffic on USB, only on Ethernet.

You must understand here that Cerrot has not had a positive experience with USB and has had with PCI bus, so he believes that USB is inferior for this reason. There are no technical arguments that he has made that hold water.

On the other hand, I can make lots of technical arguments why PCI is a bad idea for music streaming. The first being that it is in close proximity to the CPU and clocks that all radiate emissions inside the computer chassis. IT is also sharing a DC power supply or transformer/switcher rather than having its own separate power subsystem. This is why even the best PCI based systems can get positive mentions at shows, but usually do not get best of show like the USB based systems do.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
"I have to admit the Juli@ intrigues me because it has a clock input. As my DAC has a clock output it might be possible for me to slave the card to my DAC."

Another reason that this is not a good choice. In order to "slave" a clock like this, the clock must be a PLL, not a free-running clock. PLL clocks NEVER EVER have the low jitter that a free-running clock can achieve. The Lynx is another case. Used it. Been there, done that.

If you have a DAC with a good master clock in it or a way to get word-clock out of a USB converter, such as the Off-Ramp, then the clock in the PCI card is no longer of any consequence. The master clock can be in the converter or DAC, not the PCIU card. For these systems the cards can be useful.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
4,637 posts
 
Thanks Steve
cerrot's avatar
cerrot
1,606 posts
 
Nothing to do with convenience??? Kidding, right? The fact that EVERY computer has 4 usb outputs but you need to install a good sound card is not a convenience issue?

Note how there are no CD transports with USB out. Why???

Cause no one in their right mind would convert a signal TO usb.

Riddle me this - if you want to go usb, why not let everyone know the stock USB on the motherboard is VERY poor and it should be upgraded. Why don't we tell anyone? Because if they are going to open their computer, they will install a sound card!

Get educated. I have heard some great sounding USB systems - they do not come close to spdif. No ambiance, emotion. I can walk between the instruments in my soundstage. Can you?
cerrot's avatar
cerrot
1,606 posts
 
Guys - USB was created for the very reason of PROVIDING CONVENIENCE. These sham PC Audio guys embraced the wrong protocal years back because they did not believe the average Joe would open his puter and install a sound card, deal with drivers, IRQ settings, etc, so they dumbed everything down with USB and some of these guys are still stuck in the dark ages with antiquated USB. You can easily improve your USB sound by installing an actual USB card into a PCI or PCIe slot - notice how no one tells you that. Steve, care to elaborate on that? Or, again, on how no CD transport outputs usb. Or, how engineers TODAY are planning on phasing out USB in a few years. Sticking your head in the sand on that one? My arguments don't hold water? But, yet, you have been unable to dispute me.
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