Direct drive vs belt vs rim vs idler arm

Ptm, I tried your "interesting test" on my SME 30/12 belt drive. Not easy as the motor pulley is under and very close to the large platter. The rubber belt has only 1" of exposed length between the driven pulley and the platter. I felt none of "the vibrational energy being transmitted to the platter" that you mention. Perhaps the massive SME is built to a different standard than the VPI. I do notice though that the SME has a much shorter "free" belt length than most other belt drive tables - even Syntax's beloved Basis table. I've often wondered about the effect of belt length on these designs.

I don't know of anyone who has tried thread or tape drive on an SME table.

As far as the quality of the belt itself is concerned, I have not directly compared the SME belt to the Basis belt which is purported to be one of the finest in the industry. I agree with those who have written that each design has its strengths and weaknesses so implementation of a proper design is critical to the end result.

Very interesting thread.

I have never had a chance to try the Timeline device. Some have reported very impressive results with the Timeline. They have seen zero drift of the red line playing the entire side of a record. That is approx. 833 revolutions. I figure if my tt looses one revolution out of 10,000, I would be ok with that. That is 0.01% accuracy. Does that seem reasonable? Well, if so then that would translate to a 30 degree drift of the red line from the Timeline after playing one side of a record. I would still call that good.

Syntax,

I may be even more cynical than you! I believe the overwhelming bulk of merchandise made is created mainly for profit, with the case being the part which receives the most attention. For example, one very famous turntable maker that almost everyone has heard of uses a $56 AC motor, and that's assuming you buy one, not a quantity. Well, we bought six of them, and they all cog an unbelievable amount. Even worse, spindle diameter wasn't at all consistent. The bottom line here is that some manufacturers build only for price points and marketing spin, yet audiophiles continue to eat it up.

However, I also know of manufacturers who live audio, and for them expanding the art trumps anything else, so hope springs eternal because they manage to find like minded customers.

We'll survive! :)

The main problem of idler drive is people have opinions on it after hearing turntable from the 60'. I have built my lenco after reading Salvatore review of the J Nantais reference Lenco.
I have tried different material and finished with a non wood plinth, a reference bearing ,and some tweaks ,an OL conqueror mk II and a zyx airy 3 . The sound is impressive, nothing to hear here with the traditional sound of idler drive.
Then i have heard a Lenco made by a hifi fanatic, and very sympathic person. He built a 200 kgs Lenco with its own table (as the goldmund reference),the finish is impressive, there are many many tweaks but it's idler drive and the sound on his high end system is incredible, in the treble it betters all the belt drive turntables I have listened to.

I have learned allot first hand over the past ownership of numerous tables including the different designs mentioned and the ones I have tried I have been absolutely shocked with their lack of speed accuracy which at the end of the day all of these table designs all have in common and should have.

I could hear such in my own set-up prior to using this TimeLine tool to check such but was being brain washed by others including the manufacture suggesting this and that, suggesting it wasn't important.

I know there is allot more going on than just operating at an accurate speed but if you can't get the speed accurate from the get go then the rhythm and pace is effected "off" so the rest afterwards really doesn't matter, to me anyways and once you have heard it well ....

It's simple, your table using the TimeLine is either accurate or not.

I have found it seems that many are in denial, some don't even want to try this TimeLine in fear suggesting this or that works for them but in the end this is the real deal and so simple to use to truely view what's actually going on with the speed of your table so why fool your self in believing different.

Buy or find someone with one and check it out and maybe the manufactures in the end will work just a little harder ensuring theirs will be accurate.

Would love to see a REAL list made up of actual tables that can actually show they are holding an accurate speed for the entire side of a record both playing and not with an actual video with a time stamp on it.

The distance behind the tables all being the same just using a pce of tape with a BOLD line on it so one can see the laser location easily.

I won't mention the members name because that really doesn't matter, this person ownes the same table as I once did some time ago and was adamant his was running accurate when I suggested mine didn't and wouldn't, when I went over and checked the table in question with the TimeLine in hand which was really simple we found his was also off and in the end we couldn't get it to run accurate on both speeds either.

If your table doesn't have the capability of adjusting the speed like a SP10 MK2 I had on hand won't be an easy correction, if such in the end can even be done.

Lets not debate or get pissed off, instead lets work on that list of tables as per above with proof.

I would personally love to view such and there are allot of owners with different tables just reading and posting on this specific thread.

Happy New Year! to all :)