Cable Costs Relative to System

Jade - if it is fact then please provide the scientific proof of those "facts". Lets see you tell the difference between these cables in a blind test for a start. The results I feel will be very instructive. As for doubting my honesty - you have no basis for doing so except in your imagination where you have concoted a rationale for my viewpoint being currect without actually having to address my arguements. The reason for this being that you have apparently bought heavily into the expensive cable philosophy and wish to defend your expenditure. People used to state with absolute certainty that the world was flat and doubted the honesty of sea farers that had circumnavigated the globe... The truth is a local high end shop lent me a load of cables to tempt me into a purchase after I bought the turntable from them - having bought the rest of the system from another source. This explains what you observed in about not fitting my system philosophy without having to invoke your explanation. Dont be so quick to judge! I actually also spent several months with blue heaven nordost as they were provided with the system. I would have said the amps were more independent of hype than any other component!

As for my system you havent actually heard it so again its pure supposition on your behalf. You assume that because I dont hear the huge difference then there is something wrong with my system so I do not hear the difference which is a circular argument whereby you start by assumming the outcome. Please consider the alternative whereby my system is so revealing that it reveals beyond any doubt that cable effect are exaggerated. In fact I have paid great attention and time to both isolation and cabling - including the provision of lab grade filters on the mains cables. No skimping was involved - in each case I aimed for the very best that could be achieved. It just so happens that this can be achieved with cables very cheaply, if $1k canbe said to be "cheap" (and the townshend rack is hardly cheap!) The next step for me is to upgrade to active, swap the pre and phono and use something like an active SEM bench for isolation. I also purchased a custom built wally tractor to optimise the alignment of the cartridge.

I can assure you I have heard the very best of which the
deck is capable and I also assure that I have taken great pains over every aspect of the system - I come from a technical engineering background and apply sound scientific principles in every instance to good effect. Wires are not complicated - I am used to working at rf where wire problems are very much more severe and still nothing like the cable manufacturers claim. I refer you to Selfs work on difference amplifiers in cable comparisons.

BTW the $60k system would be the UK price in £ converted to $ - doubtless Bryston amps would be much cheaper in the USA.

I appreciate you are not attacking and that you have firm belief nonetheless I feel I must stand up for plausible science in this debate. There is no scientific justification for cable claims and no study has ever substantiated the presence of subjective effects. I suggest that the gentleman here get a custom cable built and compare with nordost et al and decide for himself if it is worth paying $5000 instead of $50 ;). Power however is another matter and there is sound technical basis for some claims in this area.

Everyone, I would like to expand on what I said do to the post Brizonbiovizier made. I won’t repeat some things so just read my post to bring you up to speed on my opinions.

Cables make a huge difference IF the components in your system are well matched, IF the equipment is capable of outrages bandwidth, IF the room the system is in is not over damped or rings, AND IF multiple ingredients a performance are equally important to the listener such as:

Dynamics,
Height perception,
Width and depth of sound stage,
Relaxed detail (not forced)
Roundness of instruments.
Reflections of sound in space,
Texture,
Tonal stability
Leading edge speed
Natural decay
Recreation of distant ambient noise
Breathing of emotion of the artist.

I have done double blind tests several times in my career including tests done at Harmon International and at the Audio Institute in Canada. I picked the brand of electronics, speakers, and cables 96% of the time and when I have explained to people what to listen for while with them one on one, over half the people were able to get scores above 80%.

The audiophiles I know that don't hear differences in cables are the ones that can only concentrate on one or two things at a time.

These are the same people that can't drive with their knees on the steering wheel while they eat and talk on the phone at the same time.

Nothing wrong with that but you can't tell others there is no difference in cables any more than I can tell you there is a God. One day we all will know for sure.

Oh, one more thing I forgot. Brizonbiovizier, if you are using filters on your speaker cables you are greatly reducing the frequency extension of any cable used and it wouldn't surprise me at all that you hear no differences.

It would be like trying to judge different grain levels of camera lenses after putting a non reflective coating on the lens that hurts the performance of all the lenses but hurts the top performers worse making them close to the same.

To answer the original question, in general I believe you can get the job done pretty good at about 10 percent of system cost, and no higher than 25 percent. Beyond that, I would probably start replacing components or speakers. Of course the "cost no object" crowd can spend as much as they like, and DIYers can do it much less expensively.

Filters on my speaker cables??? No no no! Only on the MAINS cables. Your comment is a bit absurd ;)

I would be interested to hear this huge difference demonstrated - so far noone has been able to meet this challenge. And indeed rigourous scientific double blind tests have also yet to reveal a difference - anecdotal evidence is not sufficient.

Your final comment is very revealing - the belief in cables is indeed on a par with religious belief. The only differences between cables are those due to LCR, connection and insulation etc - well understood engineering principles. that dont justify outrageous costs.