Cable Costs Relative to System

Maple - you have hit the nail entirely on the head. People just want to throw money away. I recently saw a nordost "dem" at a hsow - except it wasnt a dem, they just talked about how their cable was a bargain even at 1000s per metre. A comparison with a $100 cable would have been very instructive if they have faith in their product.

Hi Joe, it's a bit strange hearing some of the words coming out of your mouth on this topic. I know you appreciate the fact that wire does affect sonic quality and that different construction techniques in dielectric will change an identical wire from harsh to smooth. I have often agreed with you over the years, and believe you to be a wise audiophile. I have tried so many under $150 cables and attempted to build many more, but my quest for the Holly Grail has failed every time until I spent money. I agree it's overpriced, and believe me, if a $99 wire could match the performance I would be happy to sell my investment. Please let me in on the Holly Grail you found, I would love to try them.

Maple, I have read through your posts not knowing who you are. Clearly you have a large and heavy chip you are carrying around. You tend to be more prone to trash talking any company YOU feel is a rip off, and have very little value you have added to this site. I'm sorry you are so deeply burdened with this horrid weight, I will pray for your torchered soul my friend.

JD, thanks for your post here. I also feel endebted to your kind words. Further, in watching what part of your audio journey you have been kind enough to share with us over the years, I feel that there are few people in this hobby more devoted, dedicated, and methodical in wringing increasingly better performance out of every part of one's system than you.

As you said, we agree that wire has an effect on the sonics of a system. I even say the impact is substantial. In my opinion, wire is certainly a component, and when I really break things down, from our front end to our loudspeakers, our components are basically wire (think about it!).

And, as you have said, wire is overpriced. There are myriad reasons as to how this has come about, and I don't want to make this post overly long, so I will not go into why I feel we are in the fix we are today. But, I will say that if you really look into the source material of a lot of the cabling we use, the true cost is pennies on the dollars that we pay. That is not a universal truth by any means. Certain materials are of such purity that one could envision this level of pricing, though I am pretty well convinced only a very few, if any, companies are using this type of wire. Also, for companies such as Nordost, who have had to acquire the tooling and machinery to manufacture their own cable, the cost of paying for such equipment must be factored into the price otherwise they'll soon find themselves out of business.

But, again, if you put a list of the Top 10 cables in this marketplace over the past decade together, I'm fairly confident that this cable that I listed above would be on it. It's a Stereophile Recommended Component. All I'm saying is that I have a friend who sells the SAME EXACT stuff for $99/meter. I'd be more than happy to share the names with you offline of both the well known company and my friend...

Take care always,
Joe

Hi Joe,
Damn you... the problem with respecting you despite not agreeing fully is I then give consideration to your opinions. Over the last four years some truly revolutionary thinking (and in some cases actual science) has raised the bar in cable performance (my opinion) and your point was not lost on me. What I heard you say is cables have gotten expensive, not because of time, material and overhead, but rather because of the clientele and the expectations they as a mass have. This led me to a new research phase. I spent the past few days reading about different scientific discoveries and quite a bit of DIY’s findings. (Many of which had hard science behind them too)
Jack Bybee as one scientist has approached the cable issue from a different angle than most of the “copy-cat” manufacturers are pursuing. This took me down a road of philosophies I had not seriously considered before. There are quite a few white papers coming out of University studies that are requiring some new thinking. Your personal involvement in the scientific community has given you witness to the affects of silver conductive materials and the result on different conductors. You have personal experience in the new sciences that has been adopted by “our” industry. Unfortunately, too many of us a skeptics (my self included) to the validity of the scientific claims. This is why I began my own personal research (which I intend to continue for some time) and rather than reading product claims and/or individual peoples experiences, I’m trying to understand the fact behind the stories. The Universities used to be impossible institutions to break into for personal discovery, but now with the internet, we (the lowly citizen) can access even the most cutting edge science. NASA and the Pentagon are also good links to the research by following the information trail.
As I said I have discovered a vast amount of hard science that is being applied to conductors. Often this is for purposes not related to our industry, but the science is transferable. Conductors are a significant issue as the computing capacities increase. Transfer of massive amounts of information via electrical signal has become one of the limiting factors in increased computing speeds. Now with nanotechnology, the issues are actually more complex as we demand more from less. This is opening doors and products that just plan were not possible before today. The fact that nano-fabrication is out of the Universities and into the hands of the public opens up potential science to our industry. I am not thinking we need nanotube interconnects, what I am saying is the science that got to nanotubes is viable to us.
That being said, I wanted to respond to you and let you know you have opened my mind to new theories. I intend to pursue the research and hopefully try some personal experimentation on the DIY front. I will be sure to keep the A’gon community informed as I proceed.
I wanted to personally thank you Joe for your approach with me, and my disputes with you. I think you and I have proven kind respect gets your ideas across much better than slamming and anger. You are a true gentleman and one that this community should look to as an example of how we conduct our discussions when we see things from a different perspective. This hobby, above all other things has no absolutes, and it is done for our personal enjoyment, not to be right. I think we all need to keep this perspective. And I wish to nominate Joe as our leader on this front. You sir have my 100% respect and admiration.

jd

Just to stir the pot, I have it on good authority that the "10% rule" (and indeed the "15% rule") were arbitrarily arrived at as a sales tool to coach lazy stereo store salesmen.

The synergy factor is not so easily contained within such narrow, and remarkably round-numbered parameters.