John Dunlavy On "Cable Nonsense"

Besides this being "the topic / thread from hell", here are some more comments.

7, if electrical measurements "dictate" what a cable sounds like, why don't people just buy zip cord and "duplicate" their "favorite" cables measurements via electrical components ? It would be WAY cheaper, wouldn't it ? After all, you could simply measure the characteristics of a specific cable that you liked in your system and go from there. Once you factored in the amount of inductance in the "el cheapo" zip cord ( which you forgot to mention ), you could then simply add series resistance, capacitors, inductors, etc.... as needed. Why don't people do this ? Because it doesn't work !!!

The bottom line is that "lumped sums" do NOT equal the sonic characteristics even if they DO match electrical characteristics of the other cable. If you think that the differences between having electrical values "spread" amongst the cables or "lumped" is not measurable, detectable or audible, you need to do some checking. Borrow or find access to a TDR ( Time Domain Reflectometer ) and see for yourself. Slight kinks in cables are QUITE measurable in terms of impedance bumps, voltage to current ratios, velocity factors, etc...

Just as cables DO alter the sonics of a system, it would be nothing less than SILLY to NOT take them into consideration when building a "system". After all, ALL of the signal IS passing through the speaker cables along with the majority of other cabling in the system.

There would be NO questions asked about any of this stuff if we were talking about building a high performance car. Since most every aspect of an auto's performance ( from BSFC to horsepower / torque curves, to acceleration to braking, etc... ) can all be verified with hard numbers, we would be left with nothing "subjective" to deal with other than how the car "feels" or what our personal preferences were in terms of "ergonomics".

Unfortunately, audio is almost 100% subjective due to the various electrical characteristics involved and the differences in how we hear as individuals. This is true REGARDLESS of how something measures on the bench. If you haven't seen "unexplainable" differences between components that measure similar in identical installations, you've spent WAY too much time in the books, theory and "drawing board" and WAY too little time with hands on experience. Sean
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This is a very interesting thread. And very timely because I just got an e-mail that the Audio Engineering Society in LA is having a meeting tonight and they're going to talk about cables and controlled listening tests. They have a guest from Sound & Vision magazine, Tom Nousaine. That should be really interesting. Hi, I'm new.

I personally know Tom. I would be interested in his comments on cables and controlled listening. I have done some controlled listening with him. Plus4dbu, please give us a report.

Welcome Plus4dbu, I look forward to hearing your report. Great post Sean, not so great 7.

Maybe this explains it all -- or at least part of it:

"Auditory memory is said to last for only about forty seconds (average) and this possibly explains the diverse auditory perceptions."
From:
http://www.innerear.on.ca/editorials/editorial-v9-3.html

A few people have asked me, as the igniter of this unexpectedly voluminous thread, to state my opinion. I've held back, but after almost 150 postings on this topic, and now that it seems to be slowing down...what the heck.

Based on my 30 some years in audio, many of those years spent as a musician, and the past 15 years as a financial writer observing the degradation some people will fall into in pursuit of their god of money, I see the same pattern in huckster get-rich-quick pitches as I see in high-end product advertising, particularly in cables, interconnects and, most shamelessly, in power cords: Snake oil. The only difference is that the financial con men appeal to their audience's desire to get rich quick, while the audio con men appeal to their audience's desire to get audio nirvana quick.

Before you ask, have I spent tens of thousands of dollars and auditioned every interconnect, cable and cord out there? Of course not. Have you? Even if I had attempted such an absurd venture and pronounced my opinions, they would only be MY opinions, and many would disagree. The 40-second rule applies.

I have tried some high end speaker cables and compared them to Radio Shack 12 gauge oxygen-free copper cable at what the salesman thinks is an outrageous $1.00/foot. I find no appreciable difference.

Horrified? Get in line.

If it comforts you, I hear a big difference between 12 gauge and 14 or thinner. Other than that -- snake oil.

I think that some people are convinced that they hear a difference between, for example, one cable or power cord versus another. I can't get in their head to verify this. But my common sense, which I am learning more and more to trust, tells me that most likely they *want* to hear a difference. Maybe it's because they bought it and have convinced themselves they have to defend their extravagant purchase to their wife and thus to themselves. Maybe it's because they read a review and have convinced themselves that if they allow themselves to disagree with the respected reviewer they wouldn't be taken seriously as an audiophile, by their friends or perhaps just in their own minds. Whatever it is:

High end audio is largely about ego. That's why it's a male hobby.

We all want to think we have the biggest and the best. Or that we are on the way to getting it. And the latest and greatest cables and power cords all promise to be the new Viagra. Until you get the next issue of Stereophile which pronounces the newest latest and greatest.

And to those who have asked about my system (golly, I hope mine's bigger than yours)...here's what I am currently listening to:

Thorens TD-160 Mark II table
Audio Technica AT440 cart
Audible Illusion Modulus 3A pre-amp
JoLida tube CD player
Theta Casablanca
Spectron Musician II amp
Martin-Logan speakers
12 gauge Radio Shack O2-free speaker cable at an outrageous $1.00/foot
TMC interconnects on some components, Radio Shack gold terminal interconnects on others (haven't made up my mind on these, except the TMCs are stiff as a board and very difficult to work with)

FYI, the Spectron/Martin Logan combination is truly magical.

Of course, that's only my opinion. But I make no money giving you my opinion; unlike the cable and power cord manufacturers. Snake oil it's not.