goodbye to vinyl. . . . grr ------ longish rant


Ever since i got into hifi (which, admittedly wasn't too terribly long ago), i have been one who appreciates the sound of a good, pristine vinyl pressing played on a nice high-end rig. i love the fullness of the music, the lack of glare and grain, the ritual of putting the big black disc and flipping it after 28 minutes or so. over time, my rig got more and more expensive (and better sounding) and my vinyl collection has only marginally grown.

i'm currently using a teres 265, sme arm and VDH colibri cartridge and i've never heard anything sound as nice. ever.

so, where's the problem?

a few things:

one - the modern music i listen to is not too terribly often released on vinyl. and when it is, i usually have to import it from the UK. imagine what bulk rate shipping across the atlantic does to vinyl. it may have sounded good once, but once the postal service is done with it, i have an oversized frisbee to trow to my dog or an uncanny reproduction of bacon being cooked if i actually put the needle to it. (assuming it will even track with all of the warps in it) now, this would be ONE thing if it only occured with the few albums i order overseas, but i would expect a company like clssic records to have better better QC than a mom and pop shop in liverpool. wrongo. two $39+ records were in lousy condition. not warped, just nasty . . . with a film on them. the vpi did not help at all. i am ending up buying 2 copies of everything i buy - one vinyl and one digital. the vinyl one in hopes of a good pressing and the digital one because i never actually get a good pressing of the former.

two: a good deal of what i like consists of stuff like the velvet underground, david bowie, lou reed, iggy and the stooges, etc. the re-releases of all of these sound way worse than the remastered cd's. so, logically i should get original pressings of the lp's for good sound, right? wrong. keep in mind the bands i'm talking about. 90% of all who listened to them in the 60's and 70's were people like me - ie can't take care of their software. many of them did more drugs than lou, iggy, and david combined. i swear that if you scraped the film off of one of my used lou reed lp's and smoked it, you'd be higher than nick nolte on an LA freeway. nasty. so, after purchasing these, scraping my stylus and sanitizing my room - i end up listening to the cd remasters and loving them. oh, and don't even ask me about the copy of the moody blues' "on the threshold of a dream" i bought once here on the 'gon. i wouldn't let my dog's mouth come near that thing.

3. - why is it that when albums are released on vinyl they are sometimes mastered from the 16/44 source?!? hey, let's mix the worst of BOTH formats! and why do you sometimes have to purchase and open the damn thing to find out?!? and why don't they state on the outside whether or not they'refrom the analog master? when i bought wilco's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot on vinyl, i couldn't wait to put it on my table. imagine my surprise when it sounded (gasp) nearly IDENTICAL to the CD, only *not as good!* i checked the liner notes. it didn't say *anywhere* what it was sourced from, but believe you me, the vinyl pressing - whatever the source - was sonically inferior to the cd. another $19 wasted. i wouldn't be so upset if it weren't so common and if i didn't know that it could be any better. my LP pressings of the SMITHS' catalogue not only obliterates the CD counterparts, they're (depending on the album, mind you) some of the better sounding things i have. and my miles davis kind of blue. and my other brilliant pressings which make this all the much more difficult to do.

anyhow, my vinyl collection is no longer growing, due to my fear of lousy pressings. my cd/sacd collection is growing steadily as digital technology keeps getting better and better and i find that i have twice as much money tied up in my analog rig as i do my digital, which leads me to another burning analog question - why do you have to spend twice as much on a vinyl rig to make it sound better than a digital one? don't get me wrong, it can sound better, take this for instance - my brother has a $250 cd/sacd player and about a $600 turntable rig. i'd rather listen to the digital. why? it sounds better. now, my analog set-up sounds beter than my resolution audio opus 21, but not by the margin it should at over twice the price. and sacd?!? holy crap! the difference between the vinyl and sacd is barely audible. this is in NO way meant to be critical of vinyl playback, but an SCD-1 (borrowed) sounds so analog that, aside from the low noise-floor, i would have guessed it was my turntable playing.

so, i've reanalyzed my situation and realized that, given my situation, it doesn't make sense to have my money tied up in an expensive analog rig anymore, when i am more satisfied with digital at the moment.

so, i'm giving up the vinyl ghost and hoping audiogon helps me off my analog rig quickly so i can reinvest all of my source budget into cd, sacd, and dvd-a. i'm hoping sicerely that the meitner dac6 will be the answer to my woes.

to those of you enjoying and loving your turntables - i envy you and wish you the best of luck. those of you who've been touting the virtues of digital - i'm starting to lean more to your side. here's wishing that no such bad luck befalls me on my quest for perfect sound forever.

thanks for reading my rant. have a good one.
lazarus28
Sorry your favorite stuff is unavailable on Lp except at very high expense.
I just got back into vinyl because of the fantastically CHEAP and huge selection of yinyl available.
I have gathered about 3,000 LP in four months at an avareage price of $0.40 each. all in good condition.
I sympathize with your plight, but revel in the format.
I spent about $3,000 total incl 2 TT, Pre-pre, cart.
And 3,000 LPs to explore!
You are now giving me cold sweat: I should get delivery of a new turntable tomorrow or the day after and am still considering which cart to get. What you complain of sounds so much like my complaints of vinyl over the years and here I am having pulled one of my greatest contrarian moves in decades and already feeling the pangs of remorse. Should have ordered the bloody Sony SCD-XA777ES I had priced! Even my own lps treated with TLC over the years are often noisy. And there I was dreaming that the new expensive vinyl was all good. Well, I guess I will have to get the cart and give the new table a spin. At this stage I have my fingers crossed.
I have about the same money invested in my vinyl rig as my cd -- new Ikemi vs used LP-12/Ekos upgraded with new T-Kable and Lyra Argo.

My opinion....

Vinyl is better. I made friends with the vinyl buyer at a large local (Portland Oregon) shop and I buy a lot of stuff in perfect shape for 15-25 bucks and a lot of used stuff in the 4-10 dollar range. There's plenty of non-cruddy albums out there, and sometimes the dried pot smoke makes certain albums sound better...yessongs...heh heh.

I've not heard SACD but I don't even want to. Yet. Soon, probably, but replace/update/add another format...yech. Not until music is cheaper and widely available.

CD is great, no question. Convenient, quiet, dynamic, and much improved over its early days.

But I finally have a really good sounding vinyl rig, and it gives me more pleasure than my cd's. There's a lot of old jazz that hasn't been reissued, plenty of very cheap excellent classical out there, all my old sentimental faves from the days when the alternative to vinyl was reel-to-reel, and a lot of new stuff. I love that you have to hunt for what you want, and the fact that the internet is not the best way to buy used vinyl creates a very cool, very local aspect to the trade that is fast disappearing in most aspects of the US commercial marketplace.

So, I'm still adding to my vinyl collection and you are welcome to send me your list of black discs for sale.

Lazarus,

If you sell your Teres you'll have to change your handle and we'll certainly miss you. Who's ever sold a Teres? But of course you stated your dilemma clearly: why maintain a high end playback system if there's nothing to play back?

Damage from bulk rate overseas shipping? Why choose the cheapest shipping? I don't let sellers ship anything valuable to my house via UPS. They invariably dump boxes in plain view on the porch, usually when it's raining! If you can afford a Teres/SME/VDH you can certainly afford reliable shipping methods. Buy your overseas LPs in groups and ask them to use DHL, Airborne or Fedex.

Vinyl reissues from 16/44.1 "masters"? Blech! Worst of both worlds indeed, you couldn't pay me to spin those on my Teres. Totally agree with you, just buy the CD. Any reissue house that does this without disclosure should be told, very clearly, why you will no longer be a customer. Whether they're doing it out of ignorance or sneakiness is irrelevant to you. Once-burned, twice-shy.

I agree with Twl that noise and grunge are fixable, but I don't know if a RCM will always do it. I do know that hand washing can. Have you tried the famed 4yanx Vinyl Cleaning Method #1? A GroovMaster and the little stiff-bristled brush that comes with it are indispensable. That plus a squirt of Dawn, some filtered water and a little elbow grease can perform miracles. Last night I played a pretty rare used record that I just bought. At first I was heartbroken, it was so noisy I was sure the vinyl was badly damaged. Shocking to think a valuable record had been so mistreated. Off to the kitchen sink for some HARD scrubbing with that little brush. Result? Exceptional silence. The transformation was miraculous. Don't give up on noisy records until you've tried cleaning them by hand, vigorously. A RCM may be too gentle for these desperate cases. It's outrageous when we have to do this on a new record, I agree, but we all know that no amount of work or money can make a digital copy sound as good as a clean LP on a system as nice as yours.

Enjoy the music whatever you do. If you do sell your rig, I imagine 4yanx has enough lovingly cared for records that he would be a pleased and loving owner. (OTOH, I innocently assumed the thingies that fell out of the records he just sent me were only sesame seeds! Who knew?) Go for it David.
4yanx,

Did you get that copy of YESSONGS at the Princeton Record Exchange? If so, it could've been mine at one time.

easy