Whats the deal with CD players?

I have found there to be a huge range of opinion on the importance of a CD player - everything from "they all sound the same" to "they're the most important component". My own personal experience was similar to the ones you have described - I experimented with different setups and compared without noting much (if any difference). Everything from a decent Sony player, to a DVD player, to a DVD player as a transport into a nice pre/pro used as a DAC, to a transport into a decent DAC, etc. etc. I usually look for changes that are clearly differentiable and it's not subtle. I like playing around, but if something would take days to really appreciate, I guess my patience runs out.

I would add that my cable thoughts are between yours and many of the others here - I use cable that all my non-audiophile friends can't imagine springing for, but wouldn't make it into cable afficionado clubs around here.

Anyway, after several years of being unconvinced but interested and open to being convinced, I recently bought a Muse model 9 DVD player that is also highly regarded as a CD source. It was instantly more enjoyable. Two particular things characterized the differences for me. First, the ability to resolve all details on the CD is decidedly better. The most obvious case is hearing instruments on familiar recordings that I've never heard before, but there are plenty of subtler (but obvious) differences in hearing how an instrument is being played, hearing the singer's voice in all it's layers, etc.

The second major difference is harder to describe without sounding vague, but there is no question that the whole sound is smoother without being any more laid back. One aspect of this is that the speakers (I have Dynaudio Contour 3.0's) "disappear" to a much greater degree. But the alto sax (love that instrument!) that sounded convincing before now has a character that is just more "right" (Sorry, I warned you that it would sound vague).

I wouldn't even try to describe this if I hadn't tried at least 10 different renditions prior to this that hadn't made a bit of difference, IMO. My system has gotten better over time, so maybe the resolution of the overall system is bringing it out this time, as well as the player. I don't know. All I know is I'm not going back.

BTW, I think the suggestion to go to a high-end store and audition the difference on a reference system is a very good one. I recently did this with amps and it was really amazing how much just changing the amp (up in the same manufacturer's line) improved the sound. Swap back and forth between a decent and a reference CD player on a reference system. If you can't hear a difference, then by all means stick with the less $$$ approach and don't worry about it. If you do hear a difference, that's probably good news too, but then you'll have to go figure out how to achieve the same difference in your own system. -Kirk

Kirk makes a interesting point, your new upgraded digital player will be limited by the finnese of your amp and the capibilities of your speaker, a obvious point to be kept in mind

I follow the school of thought that says source matters most. However I belive that you first need to have well designed pre/power and speakers. I suspect the H/K gear is just not capable of resolving the music from the more expensive CD players. It could also be that you're not trying the right CD players. What players did you try?

I'll just second what Bomarc said about twenty posts back: There are plenty of card-carrying audiophiles with demonstrated good ears who think that all CD players sound pretty much alike. Those same folk may argue passionately that interconnects make all the difference. For others, it is the amp. For yet others, the power. One poster on this thread observed that he had used the same speakers for twenty years and was happy with them. I cannot imagine being happy with 20-year old speaker technology but then I ain't him!

That's by way of saying we are all a little nuts and our nuttiness manifests itself in a variety of interesting and generally benign ways.

Your prelate observes that if someone has invested a heap of dollars in something, he's likely to value it pretty highly. For that reason there is little point in suggesting to someone who owns a $10K transport/DAC combo that a $500 Denon would sound just as good. He believes they sound different because he bought the expensive one or he bought the expensive one because he believes it sounds different. Either way, you won't change his mind.

So...don't pay too much attention to folks who talk patronizingly about your "unskilled ears" or give you a pat on the head and say, in effect, "well, my unsophisticated friend, if your little system satisfies you then go away and be happy with it." Don't fret a lot about the "resolving power" of your system or give too much credence to those who suggest that what you really need to do is dump everything you have in the dustbin and start over. Just listen carefully and let your own ears and your wallet make your decisions for you.

That doesn't mean that you can't find a world of good adviced and tech info here. Sean and others are excellent sources. And just about everyone means well, you just have to separate the gold from the dross.

This is supposed to be fun. Don't take it too seriously.

will

Since my first post, i picked up some inexpensive audio research interconnects and a used rotel 965bx cd player, and i am quite pleased with the results. Firstly, freebie interconnects should be thrown out, my cheap AR's made everything a bit cleaner. I'm not sure how much better other interconnects are, but these seem pretty good. With music, the rotel seems louder then the sony dvd, i have to turn down the amp 3 or 4 db to get the same output. I also noticed the rotel weighs about 2x as much as the sony- does this mean a better power supply? At the same listening levels, the dvd player has a wonderful midrange, and somewhat more detail, but the rotel seemed to present a larger soundstage, and smoother top end, which i preferred. In one word, everthing was bigger with the rotel. Perhaps one day i will go back and try to listen to other cd players now that I have a better idea of what to listen for.