severe limiting factor

Newbee, I agree the room is to small or the speakers are too big, what ever way you want to look at it. Since Ketchup's current speaker setup isn't working, I think he should explore all possible setups first as this cost no $$ and if this fails then perhaps a speaker change or room renovation may be needed! (just kidding on the room renovation) I do beleive pulling speakers at least four feet out into the room should improve them and as far as distance from listener to speakers, well this will be a bit more of a challenge. Ketchup, your speakers are not the best match for your room but I really do think you can get some more out of them. may not be 100% of what your looking for but I think alot better. If you choose to spend a bit more time on speaker placement let us know how it works out.

Newbee: I agree with the majority of what you are saying here. I do have to bring up one point. I would not consider sitting 9' from speakers that are spaced 6' apart as being "too far into the nearfield". While i know that such variables as toe-in or running the speakers flat-faced can make a huge difference, the fact that he's sitting 50% beyond an equilateral triangle pretty much negates any nearfield effects. Sean
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Sean, The problem which I was addressing was that a poster Jsawhitlock, in his first post, made a recommendation that the listening position be at about 7 ft with the speakers placed 6 ft apart. I have no argument with that recommendation except that its contra to Thiels recommendations and my personal experience. Thiel recommends a greater listening distance than 7 ft. As you say, 9 ft would be fine, except that when listening to the speakers 6ft apart from 9 ft away you lose (compress) your soundstage substantially - ergo, my (and your) original recommendations that the speakers be placed closer to the walls and toed in substantially to avoid 1st reflections from the wall. The problem with toe in on Thiels is that on axis they are IMHO unbearably bright, thats why when I recommended toe in with the axis well in front of the listener I was trying to set them up to minimize early reflections and on axis brightness. In a good set up for Thiels with a listening distance of 9ft the speakers would be about 8 1/2 to 9 ft apart, pointed straight ahead, and be several feet (3-4 would be best) from any wall, and even then the wall should be treated. Obviously they should be 3 to 5 feet from the back wall as well. Interestingly, while I believe he will have to compromise his listening experience substantially with the Thiels in this room, this room could work quite well with panel speakers firing down the length of the room as these can be placed quite close to the wall without creating large 1st reflection problems. By the way, are you aware if this fellow ever solved his apparent phasing problem?

Good question Newbee....still havent heard, have we?

I just upgraded my CD player (see my above post) to a Sony DVP-555ES and boy, what a difference! I will reiterate my belief that you need to get those suckers about 8 feet apart and sit roughly 9 feet back, slightly toed in. Try out hanging some blankets at the first reflection point as others have suggested. Beg, borrow or buy a different CDP and see if that helps. I also agree with the assessment that nearfield listening with the Thiels isn't a good idea. According to Thiel, 8 feet is the distance where the time aligned sound begins to gel.

Good luck and keep us posted. FWIW my wife and I hated our Thiels when we first got them, totally unlistenable. Our first step was the Genesis Digital Lens which made it enjoyable. The Sony DVP-555ES is icing on the cake.