Need some wisdom comparing planars

Greetings Timwat -

So you are a musician and have fallen in love with Maggie 3.6's! I'm not surprised. The Maggies do timbre very well, and don't impose any distracting boxiness on the sound.

I'm not a Maggie dealer, but... You asked about the Maggie 1.6. In my opinion, the Maggie 1.6 OWNS its price range. The 3.6 has some competition, as does the 20 (or 20.1), but the Maggie 1.6 has none. It is economically impossible to build a commercial box speaker in that price range that doesn't sound like a box speaker.

Okay if I muddy the waters a wee bit? In the price range of the Maggie 3.6, you can find used Sound Lab speakers. The Sound Labs are full range electrostats that excel at timbre and nuance. I have owned Maggie 3.6's and compared them side-by-side to Sound Labs. Now, I'm a Sound Lab dealer, so take that into consideration.

Let me tell you about three auditions I gave to musicians. One was a harpist, one a drummer, one a concert violinist. The harpist and drummer had taken vows of poverty, and so were not potential customers. When I put on a good recording, the harpist immediately sat forward in her seat and started playing "air harp", while excitedly explaining the technique the artist was using to get a certain sound from the strings. When I put on a drum solo cut for the drummer, she (yes, "she") likewise sat forward and started describing the techniques being used. The concert violinist was a potential customer and brought his own recordings, and he told me that the Sound Labs were the first speakers he's heard convincingly reproduce not only to violin, but also to cello and double bass. He bought a pair. Incidentally his other speakers, which he said were up until then the only ones he's heard reproduce violin correctly, were the original Quad ESL's (the "57's").

My point is, if you have a chance to pick up a pair of used Sound Labs, give them serious consideration. One thing, though - they must be shipped in factory crates. If you find a pair you're interested in, get the serial numbers and run them by me. I'll find out what I can on them for you.

One final anecdote - a few years ago I got to hear a local pianist, Seth Kaufman, in concert on several occasions. When I bought a recording of his and played it over the Sound Labs, I could tell it was made on the same Yamaha grand piano. The next time I saw him I asked, and he confimed that he'd had his Yamaha shipped out to Los Angeles to do the recording.

I have a soft spot in my heart for musicians - you are the reason we're in this hobby. Most of you have taken a vow of poverty. And, frankly, many musicians hold home audio equipment in disdain, never having heard a really good system - but you have seen the light! And so we all enthusiastically welcome you to our little world!

Thanks for the kind words, Tim.

I too LOVE the sound of a stand-up bass on omni speakers. While i'm currently not using planars or stat's, i do have speakers that appear to be "boxless" in terms of sonics and imagery. The sound is so "there" and "wet" with the correct timbre that it gives you goose bumps and just draws you into the performance.

Ne1sjay had a good idea ( in some ways ). Limiting yourself to things that you CAN work with in terms of affordability and room placement CAN make life a lot simpler and narrow down your choices. Personally, i like to dream and then acquire : )

You already seem to have taken into consideration the pitfalls of planar's. No real deep bass ( but hey, the $37,000 Krell's don't have it either), limited volume capability, the need for a healthy / sturdy amp, etc... No need to go there again. I will remind you about room placement though. These work best slightly spread apart but with ample room on all sides and some attention to room treatments. If you can't get them out into the room ( probably well into the "traffic area" ), you'll never get optimum results.

As to your other options such as Martin Logan's, etc... i have to agree. The models that i recently heard ( just like you, can't remember the model ) sounded pretty poor. While i KNOW the installation was FAR from optimum, i couldn't believe just how bad they sounded. Not only was the top end NOT open, the bass was bloated and "thuddy". If someone from M/L is reading this, you BETTER start dropping in on your dealers to see how badly they are killing your product.

With that in mind, i would look at the 1.6's and subs rather than the bigger 3.6's running solo. This will make placement a LITTLE easier for the panels while increasing the speakers versatility for your specific listening tastes and habits. By running the subs, you'll not feel the need to crank it up as much simply because the sound will be MUCH fuller at lower levels. Dynamic range and maximum sustained SPL can be increased due to the panels not having to make long excursions to cover the extreme bottom end. That is, IF crossed over before the amplifier. This can be done either actively or passively without a lot of fuss.

No first hand experience with what subs would work best here, so i would have to divert you to someone else. General consensus is that the Rel's seem to work good with "panels". You might also look for something with a small woofer ( 8" or so ) that is in a transmission line or larger woofer ( 10" or 12" ) in a sealed low Q design. All of the above would offer the very tight, clean and quick bass that you're looking for.

RGD's suggestion of popping over to the Planar Asylum is also a good suggestion. Just don't forget us back here : ) Sean
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Pardon me but the Maggie 1.6 does have some competition....Apogee. For about $800-1000 you can get a mint pair of Stages with the stands. They are a pain in the butt to set up but will reward you with stunning, natural sound. For about $1500-1800 you can get a pair of Duetta Signatures. Bigger than the Stages, but will compete head on with the Maggie 3.6 in everyway. Close to the price of a new pair of 3.6's is the Apogee Diva, which will cause jaw & eye injury to the unprepared. Pleeeeaaaase check out these two sites before you decide. http://audioworld.com/cgibin/sw/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=1

http://www.apogeespeakers.totalserve.co.uk/

Dear Tim,

I am also a musician and have had Magnepan 1.5/QRs (the older version of the 1.6s) and love them. I have also liked very much some more traditional speakers in a similar price range (e.g. Thiel CS2.2s). But nothing does it for me like Magnepans. Martin Logans can also be excellent especially since you seem to listen to more music with a drum and electric bass section (I almost never do), but for me that added bass driver is a real blow to the beautiful coherence of Maggies.

I would love to get 3.6s some day, but the qualities of Maggies are present throughout their line (my dad has the MMGs in his second system and for $500 new they are astounding - though not equal to the bigger models).

I am using the Musical Fidelity A3cr amp and preamp which mate wonderfully with the maggies. I had a higher power amp before, but have not missed it. the detail is so much better and I can always move the volume from 10:30 to 11:30 The A3 and the maggies bring out phenomenal detail.

I am using TMC Interconnects (which are also very good for the money) and am in the process of upgrading my speaker wire to a biwire run of Analysis Plus Oval 9 for the bass and oval 12 for the treble. I have also just taken the plunge with some less expensive after market power cords (Stealth, Kimber and Dedicated Audio). I'm not yet ready to evaluate these last changes.

At any rate, I often work as artistic director on contemporary music recordings and have tried to avoid the extremes of a "Flatter" system or a pure analytical system, and while I'm sure that improvements can still be made, I love the sound of my stereo. Were I in your position, I would not hesitate to get the 1.6s they even work for those of us who've taken the musician's 'vow of poverty' (as Audiokinesis put it).

Good luck.

Timwat,

You've got a lot of information here to sort through.

I agree with 1953 on the virtues of Apogees. I've owned Stages for eight years now.

Sean makes good suggestions regarding a subwoofer. I'd recommend a small, fast sub, also. I used a Velodyne ULD-15 for years (crossover reset to 60 Hz) and finally sold it recently in favor of Mini-Grand style dual 8" subs to better match the speed of the ribbons.

As far as amplification goes, I've found that planars can't be given enough current. I've upgraded amplification twice in the past eight years: from 120W to 200W and then back to 160W. The last upgrade was key: from Rotel to Threshold.

While I don't have any experience with the new Martin-Logans, I chose the Stage over both the Sequel and Aerius (original) because the ML sounded veiled by comparison.

My $0.02, FWIW, YMMV (and any other internet acronyms I can think of).