Am I going insane?

Neubilder: I agree that it is good to see B&W being compared to BOSE! I think that people who poo-poo a model based on its manufacturer should have a reality check.
(But I have never heard anything from Bose I could stand.) On the other hand, I loved my B&W DM 7's.

NAIM, KRELL, LINN... etc. have cult followings like B&W. I have heard fantastic sound from all of these manufacturers. I have also heard crap.

A good example of my point can be made with cars....
A VW owner who is into his car is kind of like a cult member who thinks anything B&W makes is king.
Ahh the wonderful 1976-1986 Rabbit/Jetta. Good car if you like to tighten the alternator belt every 5,000 miles, have chronic fuel injection issues and eventual electrical smoke from the dash.
But lord help you if you point that out to a VW nut.
The same is true for the "Nameplate followers" in audio.............
McInto$h... I think would have to be the best example. Rich guy who knows nothing goes in and buys "the best" HA!

There are certainly past models made by Mirage..even Energy (remember those?) that blew away models by B&W. Yet people would leave the shop with an overpriced set of B&W's totally based on "snob appeal". BAH HUMBUG.

Remember when SOTA was a big thing? Oy-Vey. Give me the cheap little Planar 3 ANYDAY! But, there were a ton of people out there that would fight you to the death because of the name. Hey, they cost more...so they must be better, right?

I would like to see people not pay any attention to the name plate affixed to audio gear. Find what you like. Ignore the name, concentrate on the model you are listening to.

Zstokes: I agree with people telling you to trust your ears, while knowing that the sound that is intially impressive for the first half hour...can grate on you later. Make sure you have played a wide range of recordings you like on the speakers/amp(s) and be certain that you bring a few of your favorite movies as well. If the salesman does not want to spend an hour or two letting you play..then find a new salesman.

I recently heard an Atlantic Tech. Flagship setup with 9,000.00 just in speakers. The same ones that they have at the Lucasfilm ranch.... They S-U-C-K-E-D! I thought it was the setup, so I went to another shop offering the same speakers with a totally different front end..(to the tune of about 30k worth of gear)..once again, they S-U-C-K-E-D!In fact, my buddies little Mirage set up, with less than 2,750.00 into the whole thing (including the 349.00 JVC that drove them), blew the AT's away without question (to my ears).

If there is one golden chunk of advice I could give someone looking for a system, it would be to trust thier ears, not thier eyes or salesman!

It is a sad fact that so many people spend thousands of dollars after reading a few reviews..(you think all that crap is for real? Or that the reviewer isn't worried about losing the ad $$$ from a manufacturer?)
True good sound, regardless of your budget, requires many hours of research and many hours of listening. The ultimate judge being your ears.

amen, preach on brother Gumb

brother Tuna

Gumby, I agree with you on most counts - even though I am a devout VW freak as well as a Linn freak. But not blindly so - and I continually re-evaluate my commitment to these brands. I agree that a companies ‘badge’ is only an indication of the products they produce. But as in the tradition of trademarks, craftsman’s guilds, etc, it can also represent a commitment to quality - as long as the company hasn’t sold out. My Jetta Diesel has taken me across the N. American continent twice, up and down the West Coast, East Coast, hell, my VW has taken me to almost every interesting city on the continent. It cost me 120$ in fuel plus 1Litre of oil to drive clear across N.A.- from Vancouver to NYC - 6000km!. I paid 2K for the blessed thing - and its still going strong 5 years later! (knock on wood) The amount I spend on my car every month including all maintenance, fuel, and original purchase price is 35% of what the average person spends on leasing some tacky GM, Nissan, etc. And it’s fun to drive! Fahrvergnuegen – everything is designed as it should be and operates for the experience of driving. I’m not saying it’s a high performance race car – but I don’t want a race car. I want good, basic, well designed, comfortable transportation, that is as high-performance as is logically possible given it’s intended function. I would drive my 86 jetta over ANY new american car in a second! After getting out of an american rental car, or a friend’s car, (Intrepid, Cavalier) - if I haven’t cut myself trying to put the key in the ignition, poked my eye out on the corner of the door getting out, or bruised my knees on the crappy gizmos sticking out all over the place, I am always relieved getting back into my VW. The new generations of VW’s are even better in some ways that the series II, and VW is now encroaching on BMW’s market share because they are so damn good. -
- …..Back to hi-fi. I started out (and still am) a Rega, Castle, Cyrus, Rotel fan. Then I listened to, and bought a used Majik. One step at a time Linn has won me over. The stuff sounds better to me than anything by any other brand that I could possibly afford, it is simple, elegant, discreet looking, it doesn’t subscribe to the hi-fi voodoo school of thought, (though some Linnies may), they don’t change their line-up with the seasons, it holds it’s value…In short, Linn (Clydebuilt) represents what the old school meaning of brand meant – in every respect – even down to the quality of the working environment of their employees. And the fact that they built their factory on reclaimed toxic wasteland that, thanks to Linn, has been restored back to forest and is the setting of thier tasty Richard Rogers(architect) designed factory, attests to this in the most convincing way.
I better get back to work, I've procrastinated long enough. But one last thing, If it’s not Scottish, it’s crap!
- Just kidding , but I thinks pretty funny.

you said, "If it’s not Scottish, it’s crap!" if that is so, your VW is crap, right?...just a thought

by the way, I owned one of those VW Rabbit's referred to above and had exactly those problems...but no others. When it came time to trade the car in (about 80k) because it was "time" for my wife and I to buy our first car as a married couple - plus we were frustrated with the hundreds of dollars worth of maint - we gave the car to my brother-in-law who was handy and needed wheels. He drove the car well past 250k...even with the down time it was a great car and overall was inexpensive (compared to my current Olds and my last Plymouth)
I’ve got other VW Bug stories but that will have to wait for another day, lets just say VW, normally, makes a car for the long haul and their engines are nearly indistructable.

A name CAN mean quality but a name does not ensure quality - usually (exceptions: Rolls Royce - do you think it could be bad? Bose - do you think it could be good :) just kidding - Bose must be good at or for something...let me think? hmmm? Oh yea, most of them are small!

cd

What Bose is good at is making products that appeal to non-audiophiles--which, if you think about it, is very smart business. Yes, their speakers are small (to appeal to people who have other priorities besides sound), and that Bose sound does jump out at you--very impressive unless you realize how unrealistic it is.

There's an undercurrent of snobbery here that doesn't speak well for audiophiles in general. And I wonder if sometimes it's a substitute for actual experience. How many audiophiles who believe that the mass-market companies cannot compete with the high-end "names" on sound quality have ever done side-by-side comparisons of, say, Denon and Rotel? Or are we just repeating a received wisdom that happens to confirm our own brand loyalties?