How to Achieve Great Imaging & Soundstage


Hey 'Goners,

While my primary system is in flux, I'm starting to think about revamping my second system, which employs monitor sized speakers in a small (16x16) living room. I love audible holigraphy!!! My desire is to put together a system that creates great 3D imaging and soundstage. While this thread may use my current setup as an example - its real intent is to get advice for/from all interested agoners about the most important factors required to achieve great imaging and soundstage: speakers, electronics, tweaks, room acoustics...

My current system consists of a Classe CAP-101 integrated attached to Triangle Titus 202 speakers using AQ Slate cables. The CD players vary from an Arcam FMJ CD23 to a Cary CD308, using Kimber PBJ IC's. The room is 16x16 and organized on the diaganol, with the speakers on either side of a loveseat (a necessary 'no-no' due to space constraints). The ceiling is doube-high and tilted down to the rear. I currently don't get much imaging at all, even if I remove the loveseat. The sound is overall good, though a bit bright, and I think the upper-end of the Titus speakers is a bit edgy and unrestrained - probably needs a shift in system synergy. It's a carpeted room with stuffed furniture, but the walls are bare and hard and there is a picture window with a fabric shade.

So what is most important: componentry or setup? While in San Francisco last week I audioned Totem Mani-2 and Model 1 speakers, as well as B&W N805's (all driven by a Rotel CDP, Aragon preamp, and ??? SS amp). The latter two speakers provided very good soundstage and imaging, but the Mani-2 wasn't as good. I note that the N805 appeared to get good imaging partly from its high frequency emphasis, and I was wondering whether the Model 1's achieved good imaging due to their small size. Is small size a big boon towards good imaging??? I'm also wondering how much difference the electronics could have been making. Even though imaging fell short in 1/3 speakers, how much are electronics a necessary key ingrediant?

So the questions I want to pose here are:

1) WHAT IS YOUR HIERCHIAL APPROACH TO ACHIEVING EXCELLENT IMAGING AND SOUNDSTAGE?

2) IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR GEAR THAT YOU WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND TO ACHIEVE THIS END?

I'll be attending CES in January, and will be listening for the best in this realm. But they only show current gear - and older, used components are a resource not to be ignored.

Thanks All.
peter_s
Although much depends on what components you're using, I would say number to achieving great soundstaging is placement of the speakers within the room and their relative position to the listening chair.

Personally, I've had great results achieving a lifelike soundstage with ProAc monitors. I also attribute much of what I've accomplished to my Blue Circle tube preamp and Virtual Dynamics cabling.
I think speaker positioning in the room is more important than the equipment. I'd go as far as to say that you're wasting money on expensive equipment if the room layout is not good for imaging. My favourite sites are Cardas:
http://www.cardas.com/insights/index.html
And audiophysic:
http://www.audiophysic.de/produkte/aufstellung/aufstellung_e2.html
I am absolutely with Gunbei and Sean, speaker placement is paramount in realizing what you are trying to achieve. What is between the speakers will also affect the soundfield dramatically. This should be minimized to the greatest extent possible.

So far as gear goes, it will improve on matters but isn't the first place to start. Treatment requires experimentation to determine what it is you like. Some prefer a deader sound some a liveler sound, it is totally subjective and your tastes will have to guide you there. So far as speakers that image well, well there are quite a few out there.

Always remember that imaging and soundstaging are more artifacts of the recording. It is an audiophile darling but what is more important in the long run is accurate tonal balance and timbral accuracy which leads towards long term enjoyment and minimizing another audiophile bugaboo, listener fatigue.
For great imaging on the cheap look for used Spica Tc-60s or Angelus (which I own). They don't play high SPLs and they're not the most dynamic speaker, but they have fantastic imaging and a very non-fatiguing top end. And they're both <$500 a pair. A true audio bargain.
My experiences with stage & image have varied all over the map; the variables being electronics, cabling & tweaks, the only un-changing components being my speakers & their placement. In other words, I've realized everything from a totally flat presentation to totally holographic, all with the same speakers in their exact same locations.
Stage/image are not my primary objectives when setting up & tweaking a rig, they come as a bonus.
As Tubegroover so adeptly explains:
"accurate tonal balance and timbral accuracy leading toward long term enjoyment and minimized listener fatigue"
are indeed my primary system setup objectives. To that end I've sometimes been a bit disappointed with the resulting stage/image, while at other times the stage has been fantastic but some of the other aforementioned attributes were otherwise lacking. I found that I preferred tonality & ease of listening issues over stage/image; others may lean in the opposite direction. Whatever sound that you prefer is what's right for you, just as my own preferences are of course what's right for me.
Touching upon Pete's 2nd question: the specific setup which gave me such a holographic presentation was (I'll do my best here to remember it) ... relatively modest compared to the system that I'm presently using.
---it was---
ReVox B795 TT + Signet MK10 mc cart
EAD Ultradisc 2000 CDP
Golden Tube SEP-2 pre
McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe amp
Synergistic Research Resolution Reference interconnects & Master Control Center active shielding with Synergistic Reference AC cord
MIT MH750+ speaker cable
classic vintage Belle Klipsch speaks
Chang Lightspeed 3200 + 9900 amp line conditioners
JPS Digital AC (on CDP)
XLO Type 10a AC cord (on pre)
Custom Power Model 11 AC cord (on amp)

That combo was magical regarding stage/image, but was somewhat lacking in tonality & was also much too sibilant.