Joule Electra VZN100 with Merlin VSM-MX.

can i digress a moment and ask a stupid question? ok, so i will anyway, all these comparions b/w the Berning and JE amp with Merlin's in very informative, but why is nobody discussing the price of these - and how that might factor into the equation?

I own a Berning ZH270 but not Merlins. Mine drives a pair of Sonus Faber Guarneri Homages, and to a wonderful effect. At one point, following this or another thread - looking for a good amp for my speakers, and in doing so I seem to recall something about the VZ100 going for $15,000 a monoblock set. If that's true, for Pete's sake, you could buy THREE Berning ZH270's for that price.

Anyway, for me and anyone else not born into the lucky sperm club, i'll the amp that costs 1/3 - the $4995 amp that could! Now, please correct me if im wrong on the price delta betweeen these......

Artg- You are correct, of course. In terms of price/performance ratio the Berning walks all over the Joule at retail, but the price of a used Joule gets it quite a bit closer to the price of a Berning. And I will comment that while I have not heard the MA-1s, I have a pair of Atma M-60s (2.2 upgraded to include most of the 2.3 mods but not auto-bias or a/b switch). I think that they are a real contender with my Merlin-MMs and I am beginning to agree that at this point, cabling becomes very important. My Berning does not have the silver/cryou wire mod, but does have ERS and cryo output tubes. Any on these amps sounds great with the Merlins, right now I like the Atmas or the Joule (VZN-80 MkIV), but I can see that with a different set of cables/ics and a wire upgrade, I might hear things differently. Unfortunately, the Stereovox cables are $$$$.

Swampwalker - I hadn't thought about the used VZN100's, mostly because they're pretty rare to come see, but I do see a pair of VZN350's on AG for only $27,000!

My Berning is like yours: cryo's tubes + ERS, but no wiring/cap upgrade as of yet. As I understand it, that mod is an absolute no-brainer, so I'll be doing it sometime soon. As for the cabling - DITTO. I have heard amazing things about the Stereovox, and once I get me $$ saved up, i think I'll take a shot at using them. Allan Bhagan and a few others have spoken quite higly of these, and so far 100% of Allan's advice has been spot-on, so it's a matter of time and $$.

I also agree that all of these are lovely amplifiers that would make the "average" guy ecstatic - and that we're talking about that final "nth degree" of performance here. In fact, i heard and loved a set of Atma-Spheres in my system and loved them - I had some serious practical issues qith them (space for Mono's, the heat, exposed tubes, cost of replacing tubes, etc), otherwise I would have bought it, esp given the relatively higher supply of these. Whereas the Berning sounded as good (better in bass, and no my ear, slightly more neutral), and ran cool, cheaper upgrade, smaller, etc - but was harder to come by -i.e., so few on the used mkt - and most go for near retail when they do come along.

Never had the oppty to have the Joule's in my system, though i would have liked to try, based on everything Im reading here. The other thing to consider is that the Sonus Faber is voiced differently from the Merlin, and the value of a "warmer" sound is less of an issue - Sonus Faber uses a Berning in it's reference system, so that certaily reinforces the synergy!

Art and Swampwalker, you really must get the wire upgrade, it is more significant than either the tubes or the ERS, maybe even more significant than both combined. As for Stereovox, by next week at this time I hope to have all Stereovox cabling, the new IC's (SEI II's) and speaker cables. As for IC's, over the years I have had all quattro fil, all HMS Gran Finale, all Stereovox, all Indras (beta versions), as well as various combinations of them. I'm currently trying out an Harmonic Tech cyberlight. While each cable has its strong points Stereovox is probably the best overall cable with my system.
Sorry about taking the thread away from the Joule-Berning direction.

Artg- I bought a used VZN-80, for about the same price as a used ZH-270. Seemed like a good deal, but since it only worked for about a week before buying the farm, maybe not. Jud won't have time to fix it til next month. If the Sonus Fabers (or your font end equipment) is a little warmer, and since they were voiced with the Berning, that seems to be a good choice. The monoblock and unusual layout of the Atmas IS an issue. I do not have a child, so exposed tubes is not a problem. Of course, Joule also has heat and tube exposure issues. The 8 6SN7s needed for the Atmas is also an issue in terms of cost of good NOS tubes. The 6c33cs in the Joule are pretty reasonable; I got a new set of 8 for $100.00. 12 individual bias pots on the Joule; 2 for the Atmas (1 per block); none for the Berning. IN terms of ergonomics, ease of use,etc., the Berning is a no brainer. In terms of ultimate sound quality, IMO, its a personal choice issue. NO right answer. As for me, I like chocolate and vanilla ;~)