How would you desribe Von Schweiket VR-4jr sound?

Whooooo.....! First of all, I DO like to stir things up a bit. Sorry for the delay in responding to all this, but I've been out all day.

But 2nd... Who said I haven't heard these? I've got better things to do than yabber about something I have no knowledge or interest in. I was seriously interested in the JR's as bedroom speakers when they first showed up, and I have about 2 hours of daytime cell phone bills talking with Kevin at VS to prove it. Kevin, BTW, was very helpful, very knowledgable, and had some interesting stories, too. The speakers just aren't for me. I didn't say they were bad. Maybe some people had that impression because I used the word "apparently" in regards to the finish? I said it that way because the complaints have been that the polyester satin finish is not durable in the long run, and there's no way I can know that without owning them. An audition doesn't tell you that. "Apparently" means that I'm granting some validity to those claims - not that I've never heard them.

re: Robm - My post was not about MY "logic". I was exposing the logic inherent in Kevziek's post, who said "I also wonder what recordings people are listening to...I'm afraid that some audiophiles choose equipment that makes their favorite flawed recordings sound better, rather than carefully choose recordings that are musical and coherent."

Well, if 95% of the recorded music over the last 50 years sounds better on other speakers, because they're supposedly "not as revealing" of the recordings' drawbacks, well then I'll take the other speakers right quick, Thank You. I was stating that KEVZIEK's OWN internal logic implies the JR's are not for musicphiles. I have no opinion on that except in regards to myself.
I obviously didn't make it very clear, but when I said, "So the audience that will be truly happy with JR's is "audiophiles" who can't presently afford more, or "music lovers" without very discerning ears," I was summarizing with some tongue in cheek, the outcome of Kevziek's reasoning.

"Complicated 4th order crossovers, rear-firing "ambience" tweeters, and ported cabinets disqualify it as far as I'm concerned." ---- I'm not going to get into a speaker design argument - been there, done that - but this is far from an ignorant statement. If you think it is, you need to do some study. A ported design actually limits ultimate extension, and a tweeter firing backwards out of phase - well you may like the "enhanced" sound, but there's no argument that it's accurate. 4th order crossovers - No. VS's version of cascaded 1st orders into a 4th order topography - Maybe. But not for me - and that's all I said - "as far as I'M concerned". Again, I didn't say that they suck and anybody who likes them is crazy.

re 9rw: I don't like to respond to that kind of question re: equipment - because it misses the point of the hobby. I don't believe in judging someone's ear by their equipment - which is more often than not determined by their pocketbook. Everyone's ears are different and we are all qualified to judge for ourselves, and post our opinions.
But to answer anyway, since you were so obnoxious about it - I'll just say that the equipment or $$$ end of the equation is not a limiting factor for me. I spend, on average, 3 hours a day, 7 days a week listening - which, like Arkio, doesn't thrill my wife. I've also studied music extensively and play 4 instruments. And I probably have more audiophile and non-audiophile rare vinyl than everyone posting on this thread put together. So there! :)

Anyway - I'm not sure why the JR crowd is so touchy about this, but clearly, they're not for everyone. There ARE quite a few changing hands rather soon after being purchased - I know, because I've been watching. Why, who knows. But it's not because the sellers are wildly in love.
So what? If YOU love 'em keep them - and tell other people you love them - but you don't have to bash people who don't. And vice versa, of course. If anyone interpreted my sarcasm as bashing, I apologize. The original poster asked for opinions. Presumably, that would include both sides of the aisle.

Opalchip, being a trained musician and a lover of music all my life, I think I know of which I speak, and I don't agree with your incorrect and slanted interpretation of my comments.

So, your implication is that because I seek out and prefer recordings that are outstanding in sonics (& performance), I'm an 'audiophile' with a negative connotation, and can't possibly be a true music lover, or I'd be listening to flawed recordings.

I also listen to flawed recordings, but listening to the compression, grain, brightness, thinness, distortion, squashing, etc. -- has become something less tolerable to me over time. If you prefer a speaker that editorializes the sonics, fills out a thin, dead, flat, sizzly, equalized recording, and rolls off detail enough to make these recordings sound more palatable, that's your perogative. But don't claim this makes you a "musiclover" rather than an "audiophile."

Further, you criticize a brilliant engineer like Albert Von Schweikert for his engineering choices. What qualifications do you have in speaker design to so strongly criticize someone who knows speakers inside and out?

These types of posts turn a good thread into a pissing match & bashing exercise, rather than a positive interchange.

First off - it ain't me who's pissing. You bash people personally, and then hide behind the implication that if we respond we're turning this into a pissing match." Nice strategy, but, if you review my 2 posts I have not personally attacked anyone the way you are. To respond:

1. It was YOU who stated that non-audiophile, "flawed" recordings "SOUND BETTER" on other speakers. It wasn't me. Is "better" not better now? Your direct quote: "some audiophiles choose equipment that makes their favorite flawed recordings sound better, rather than carefully choose recordings that are musical".
And frankly, the reason I was sucked into this quagmire to begin with, is that with those particular remarks you were attempting to discredit other posters here who don't personally enjoy the JR's by questioning their equipment, music choices, and/or audiophile sensibilities. I objected to that - which was at the heart of my first post. Discrediting those who don't agree as probably having inferior systems or software is not cool. The original poster asked for our opinions on the speaker, not on what we imagine are each others' qualifications for liking or disliking them.

2. Nowhere did I imply "audiophile" to have a even a remotely negative connotation - that's in your imagination. If you think otherwise, then show us the direct quote. I posited that the audiophile's priorities are in a different order than the musicphile - which is a self-evident and accepted fact. You brought a value judgment to that, not me. And of course, no one is 100% audiophile and 0% musicphile or vice versa.

3. Albert Von Schweikert is obviously a knowledgable engineer and a very fine speaker designer. And a very astute marketer who crafts a sound that a lot of people like. So? We don't all have to personally prefer his choices. And I certainly DO know enough to know where the inevitable compromises lie. But that's theory - what matters is if we like how they sound enough to make them our primary "window" into the music, and some of us don't. No big deal, but according to you that must be because we don't know enough or don't have ears as good as yours.

Of course there is one other possibility - Have you for a moment considered that maybe we're hearing something you're not? If YOU don't hear something, does that mean it doesn't exist?

And by the way - have you asked anyone who LIKES the JR's what THEIR qualifications for liking them are? No? I didn't think so...

Post whatever you'd like - I'll refrain from any more posts to this thread.

Opalchip, As one of the owners who is not happy with the finish quality of the speaker, I will agree on that point. We are all buying what we enjoy, and I have no doubt any trained musician has a heck of a lot more knowledge as to what insturments should actually aound like. I guess there are several schools of thought as to what sounds most "realistic", and depending upon ones exposure, he or hshe chooses accordingly. Thanks for your perspective....interesting .
I enjoy the sound, and to each his own is what it's really all about.
Carl

Opalchip: Thank you for not posting again. You are an ignorant - bombastic fool. You contradict yourself and insult everyone on Audiogon by saying that "audiophiles" put equipment above music as a priority. What else is the equipment for but to listen to music?

You supposedly are an expert speaker designer who could teach VS how to better design speakers, you supposedly play several instruments, have had extensive musical training - I suppose your a Navy Seal, fighter pilot, and astronaut also.

Your post did nothing but put down VS's design, sound, finish, and you assumed that everyone who bought them is dumping them. Then, in your next post you say VS is a "very fine speaker designer".

I could go on and on about your inconsistencies, but I think it is transparent. By the way if this post was about any other piece of equipment that I was familiar with, I'd call you on your ignorant statements just the same. This has nothing to do with VS – I have no special interest in him or these speakers other than my enjoyment.

I buy CDs that I listen to only in my car, because they sound so horrible, but I like the music. We are trying to get closer to the music and bad recordings hide and distort the original music that was recorded. If your a music lover than I would think that would be important to you.

There were several criticisms that were posted above, and although I may not have noticed the same sounds from these speakers in my system, you could tell that they were legitimate and from actual experience. You say you’re a music lover, but all you’ve talked about is the design and other physical characteristics - everything but the sound.

If you would have said that it is a very revealing speaker that won't hide bad recordings or equipment - that would have been a contribution. But, when you say that it's for gear head audiophiles and not for music lovers, then go on to explain who fits in what box - then you just sound ignorant - and do a disservice to people seeking the truth.

Rob