Full Range Speaker $15-$20000 Range?


My system consists of Thor Audio tubed 150 watt monoblocks,
Thor linestage, Thor phono stage & a Thor Dac(ALL Tubes)
with a Cary 306/200 which I use as a transport, Scoutmaster
by VPI table and a Clearaudio Discovery cartridge, and finally a pair of Quad 988;s, loudspeaker with a Audio Physics Minos Subwoofer. My room is 20 X 20 with 12 foot ceilings. The room has been completely completely treated by Mike Kochman of Echo Busters who has done a
wonderful job and I can give my highest recommendation.
The problem is that the sppeaker lacks in dynamics and soundstage. The sound is great with small scale chamber music, solo voices, and solo piano, but it cannot reproduce
an illusion of an entire orchestra and it softens dynamic contrasts, for example the tambourines in Capricio Italien
by Tchaikovsky's are softened. In a non elecrtostatic
speaker the tambourines snap like they do in real life.
I would also like a speaker that does not require a sub. Without the sub on my system the lows are very disappointing. I also need a fairly efficient speaker, because 150 watt a side won't drive a Magnepan and many others. I listen exclusively to 2 channel music, mostly classical, jazz, and classic rock. Does anybody have any personal experience with any speakers that I can audition?
kjl
Congrats on your electronics -- great stuff.

The Wilsons and Revels would not work well, as they all drop to 3 Ohms or lower in the bass -- the vast majority of tube amps, even very good ones like the Thors, won't sound right on speakers with these impedences.

As for traditional speakers (non-horns, dynamic drivers), the Verity Sarastro is top speaker that would work, although they exceed your budget unless you can find a pair used. The smaller (and very fine) Verity Parsifel Encore is more on-budget.

The powered speaker idea of Vandersteen 5a's or Genesis works. In the same vein, a pair of Sonus Faber Guarneris with a top subwoofer (Aerial, REL) would sound great, but perhaps leave you wanting on big orchestral and rock.

There is of course the whole universe of horn speakers and horn-loaded hybrids like the Tannoy Westminsters.

The new Von Schweikert VR-7SE would definitely be my first choice, but it would stretch your budget.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the "fabulous" EPIPHANY 12/12 speaker.15 thou,and worth every cent IMO!Your room seems perfect for these to open up in.I heard these in a room of almost exact dimensions,and with, as well as without the big buck Epiphany sub.IMO they were MUCH better without the sub.They,also seemed to get down quite deeply(don't believe the "bull" about these having a rolled lowend,or "vice like" sweetspot.Best of luck!!

BTW-Way too many people seem to be over the top "bass dominated" in their views.I guess that's why I don't enjoy stopping at red lights,only to hear a mega sub oriented car system BLASTING a tune that doesn't require any output below 80hz!!
I find interesting in that of the five speakers that people have mentioned I have owned 3 of them and of the two others I have owned speakers from the companies. I have had the Andra II's that I sold to upgrade to the Savoy's and also own every speaker in the eggleston works line except now the II's and the Ivy's. I loved the sound of the Andra II's so much that I bought a pair of Savoys. So my home Theatre consists of a pair of Savoys a custom made Andra Center Channel attached to an Andra I bottom and 2 pairs of Rosa's with a Wilson Whow III Sub. I also have a pair of Andra's in my den. The sound of the Andra II's were complete They were excellent sounding and relatively eay to drive. They reproduced piano extremely well as well as resolved female vocals flawlesly. The bass was deep and defined, truly amazing. The upgrade bug grabbed a hold of me and I went for the Savoy's. They are a bit more difficult to drive but I biamp and they truly sound amazing.

The Vandys also sound exceptional in the right room. Because of the integral bass amp they too are relatively easy to drive. The only drawback was that for them to sound their best I had to have them well into the room. about 6 - 7 feet away from the rear wall.

The Wisdoms I already spoke about and wish I could Keep. They also are amazing and provide great dynamic Contrasts.

The Innersound Kaya's I did not own but I did have a pair of the Isis. Extremely quick and resolving but too directional for my tastes. Also the bass could have intergrated a little better. The Current Martin Logan stuff sounds a little more coherent top to bottom but does not have the resolution in the upper octaves like the Innersound.

I have also owned Infinity Beta's (twice), Infinity Gamma's, Odeon 26's & Double 6's, Genesis V's, Mirage M1si's, M3si's & M7si's, Martin Logan SL3's, Apogee Centaur Major's, Maggie 1.6's, Wilson Watt/Puppy V's, and Gershman Avant Garde RX-20's.

Like I said right now I am extremely happy with the Egglestonworks line and Wisdom M75's. If you want to see some pics let me know.
Some pretty good suggestions above (e.g., Andra and the Innersound Kaya). I like the pair of speaker I own (S.A.P. J2001 (twin woofer)), but it is no longer made and is a bit above your specified range.

Some other models to consider that I think sound good and would do a good job with large-scale classical music are:

Gershman GAP 828
DeVore Silverback
Edgarhorns
Among the speakers mentioned, I could recommend the Vandersteen 5As and the Eggleston Andra IIs. The latter really benefit from lots of power, in many cases using big solid state amps. For example, Parasound JC-1s make them come alive. I wouldn't assume your Thor monoblocks would work well with them, but they might.

I cannot recommend the Wisdoms, mainly due to the crossover which not only is extremely complicated (thousands of possible settings) but also veils the sound. Wisdoms also tend to be used with big solid state amps.

It's hard to change from dipole speakers such as Quads to moving coil speakers, given a good setup. You didn't say how much room treatment you have, but it's easy to overdo it and in doing so rob the music of life. Other than preventing slap echo if it exists and getting the bass right, there isn't much to do. The Sound Lab full range ESLs I sell work well in a wide range of rooms and don't require much treatment, and the larger models are rarely used with subwoofers. The sensory experience of full range ESL dipoles, especially in the bass, is quite different from that of cone woofers. With woofers you can get more chest thumping bass, whereas with the ESLs you hear the bass that tends to envelop you more. An ESL that extends well down into the 20's can make the hairs on your neck stand on end when hearing things such as tympani at fortissimo levels, and you experience the space of the venue.

Your square room presents a challenge. I suggest you want a speaker that is more independent of room nodes, especially in the bass. I suspect the Quad 988s may not work quite as well as hoped due to their radiating characteristics as virtual point sources. An option to consider is positioning your speakers 45 degrees diagonally across the room, if possible. It may sound far-fetched, but try it if you can.

If you're seeking maximum dynamics then I'd second the recommendation of the CAR speakers, especially with TAD drivers. It's a very different sound, but they're quite efficient and can play very loudly. With the right electronics they can work very well.

Brian