Any thoughts on removing a preamp from your system

Hcalland, if your phono stage has enough gain by itself by comming out of aux and bypassing the preamps tube line output stage, then yes you are getting rid of an unnecessary tube gain stage and the result will be more transparency.

Todays sources (phono,cdp,dacs) all have enough gain by themselves to drive most amps to full output, why add another preamp gain stage, only to knock the gain of the source back down with the volume control and creating more noise.

Just read what Nelson Pass has to say about it here.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1400932591&openflup&6&4#6

Cheers George

Herb, several times during my passive experimentation days, I too heard greater transparency when using a passive unit or going direct to amp. I am familiar with this feeling. The key is will this feeling last? I've found that after a period of time listening to this newly found transparency, when switching back to an active preamp, I rediscover the weight, body and soul of the music which had been lost during the switch, and was not initially realized during my enthusiasm for the gained transparency.

Overall, not just with preamps, I've learned that musicality is more important to me than transparency. If tonal accuracy is not true, I do not care how clean the signal is. This is the same reason I've given up on Nordost cables. Their transparency and revealing qualities can be very enticing in the beginning, but I've found, over time, that they cause me to listen less often and for shorter periods of time as listening fatigue sets in sooner and sooner. I still say that Nordost cables are great for demos, they will impress your friends, but I just don't care to live with them over the long haul.

Obviously, others will have different goals, but my days of chasing after the ultimate in resolution are over. I'm more about listening to what sounds musical or natural to me these days. My system is not as resolving as it was years ago, but it's much more enjoyable to listen to. I wouldn't say that you are imagining the increased transparency, I would just say be cautious, as this new sound may turn on you down the road.

Cheers,
John

Very interesting thread. I am temporarily without a pre and have my Oppo 105 feeding directly to my Classe mono blocks. Will use it this way until my VAC pre arrives in a few weeks thus I will have a good understanding of the differences. Will provide feedback once this happens.

Hi John,
Very nice post concerning your individual encounters with various system
configurations. My experiences parallel yours but I disagree on one point
you made.You aren't hearing more transparency with direct or passive
alternatives, just leaner and diluted sound that lacking vital music
information. The full body and tone you realize was missing is abundantly
present with live music. Listen to a live cello, saxaphone, piano, trumpet
etc. The colors, harmonics, richness and vibrancy of tone is crucial to
music. Any audio component that strips way those natural characteristics
is doing a disservice to the complete musical true. A tenor sax heard live is
so rich and full you could can its tone "fat"(I just heard one 3
days ago in a club, he was unmiked, pure and natural). IMO this so called
transparency you mentioned is fake. You'll never hear this from live
acoustic instruments. They possess big tone, fullness and dramatic
dynamic energy. In the past 3 months I've attended 14 live jazz
performances and these essential qualities are clearly evident and make for
a devine and emotional experience every time. John your active preamp
does a superior job of "retaining" those realistic cues although it still won't
match the live sound. It will get you closer than if you eliminate it from your
system.
Charles,

There is a good argument for passive when the control itself is built into the amplifier, as in an integrated amp.

But when the control is in an external box, the problem is that you are totally subject to the whims of the interconnect cables.

One very common buggaboo is that a passive control will sound fine at full volume, but as you decrease the volume control the bass and overall impact will diminish. You will get better results with shorted cables. So a lot depends on setup.

Because of the lower output impedance of many active preamps, they tend to reduce the artifact of the interconnect cables. In fact this is one of the functions that an active preamp should do- ideally, eliminate the cable artifact entirely.

If the active preamp is good in this department and is also lacking coloration, the result is that it will sound better than a passive setup.

Now if you happen to use balanced lines, the whole idea behind the balanced system is to eliminate cable artifact. It is quite successful at this; without it the Golden Age of Stereo (1954 to 1963) would not have occurred. Not all high end balanced preamps and passive controls support the balanced standard (in fact, no passive control does and only a handful of actives do) so you do still read about people hearing differences between balanced cables. That isn't actually supposed to happen, if it does its a sign that the preamp you are playing does not support the standard.