M-db and Bill, I also apologize, I realized those remarks might or might not at all have been directed at me... I sometimes find this forum quite difficult, we are a bunch of arrogant audio heads, we all know it all. On occasion some new members or less active members find their courage to get involved and post, then out of nowhere they get shot down and that ends their involvement. I'm sure that I am guilty. I've been at this 35 years and have said DUMB things on this forum... I hope he doesn't mind, but the mighty Ralph Karsten once sent me a private email about a post, he was caring that I didn't look stupid... what a gentleman!.. I explained my position to him, he said I was correct and then I re explained correctly on the forum. This is what we need in this this forum.... Sorry for the rant here and M-db, I don't make any of this statement toward you, in fact your points were quite valid. I've seen others slapped several times in other threads just the within past few weeks and its been on my mind. Bill, didn't mean to steal your thread. Good luck. Tim