Telarc 1812 revisited

Dear Jcarr: +++++ " This is an erroneous assumption.... " ++++

could be and could be not.

Stereoplay measurements can be " perfect" ones or not to " perfect " and in the other side we have several kind of " distortions " that wee normally don't see it through measure tests, what I mean: we are not measuring the right kind of distortions or the tools to emasure can't do it.

I posted at least an example where two similar stylus assembly in the same cartridge performs with different tracking abilities and sounds " different " too: tiny differences.

I don't have gold ears, I'm a " normal " listener but I'm traines by my self to be aware of some kind of distortions at different links in the system audio chain and I can detect some kind of " sound " that you can't because you don't know what to look for when I know because my self training. That's why I asked you : what to look for when you posted:

+++++
the suspension's fulcrum point will shift position, depending on what the frequency being reproduced is. This won't necessarily sound bad, and some cartridges are designed like this. But it certainly isn't accurate. " ++++

non-accuarte, the question is: what have I to hear to know that exist that unaccuracy in the cartridge design?. I receive no answer about.

JC, you have and live in a highly desired position been a cartridge designer because you can make easyly some tests to confirm or not what we are discussing here ( remember that this discussion is not if you or me are right. I don't know you but what I'm looking is to improve my knowledge level. ):

you can take a Delos sample with that 80 um on traking hability and modified two other Delos samples to have one with 60um and other with 100um an make different kind of tests that can corelate traking ability with distortions and of course through listening tests try to be aware to find out if it at normal recording velocities you can hear tiny differences or no one at all.

I think that you not only are in that privileged position to do it but you have the right knowledge level, skills and tools to do it along the " ideal " LP's tracks to do it.

This cartridge tracking habilities audio subject seems to me similar as what could be happen in a car in specific to its suspension/tires and different suspension quality designs and how different cars performs on the road. You can be sure that exist differences because that car tracking habilities on demanding roads as in not so demanding ones.
As with a car what we want in a cartridge stylus tip is that always stay in touch with the grooves/road even at microscopic level, if not common sense tell me ( certainly not to you. ) distortions are generated.

I think that you have the right " light " to really put a real light down this audio subject through first hand tests. If you decided to do it not only me but the audio community will appreciated.

Stereoplay tests put some uncertainly " light " but IMHO not a definitive and absolute answer.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

An audiophile, speaking to one of the world's premier phono cartridge designers:

I don't have gold ears, I'm a " normal " listener...

... but,

...I can detect some kind of " sound " that you can't because you don't know what to look for...

False modesty and a forked tongue, all in one sentence - ROFL.

***

This cartridge tracking habilities audio subject seems to me similar as what could be happen in a car in specific to its suspension/tires and different suspension quality designs and how different cars performs on the road. You can be sure that exist differences because that car tracking habilities on demanding roads as in not so demanding ones.

An analogy which demonstrates Jcarr's and my point nicely.

For "tracking ability" on extreme terrain, a Jeep Wrangler, Army Hummer or Land Rover Defender have few equals. They motor happily through obstacles that would stop or even seriously damage normal cars. Try driving the family sedan over a boulder-strewn mountain pass or through deep water, soft sand or 12" of mud or snow. Forget spare tires, you'd better have a spare car.

But that doesn't make the Jeep, Hummer or Land Rover superior performers for normal driving conditions - just the opposite. Their long-travel suspensions, huge ground clearance and massive, heavy-duty frames *necessarily* impair performance on normal roadways. In city driving, on freeways or along paved country roads, any decent sedan or coupe will track and handle far better than the extreme vehicles, and be more comfortable too.

Great example of why a machine that's optimized for extreme conditions *cannot* also be optimal for more typical conditions. Thanks!

I'm in the camp that says being able to track records designed to be an obstacle course does not mean better performance in general.

Thank god Redbook CD specifications put practical if not ideal limits on what is possible so we don't have to worry about negative consequences of going to extremes there. :^)

Thanks Doug for a very well reasoned and clear post. Your contributions on this forum are much appreciated.

Peter, it hurts to denigrate my Landy that way, but it is what it is. Hope he wasn't listening. His ex-wife (an RX-8) would never let him hear the end of it! ;-)