Transformer based passives vs passive stepladder

The problem is that you have to control the volume somehow. In active line stages and in the case where the passive is at the input of the amp, there is no interconnect cable that has to be controlled. It does seem that the interconnect cable (in tandem with the input impedance of the amp) is playing a huge role.

Problems come in if you want a different input and to a lesser degree if you have monoblocks. Passives make this inconvenient. A proper line state OTOH *should* allow you some distance from the amplifiers plus provide switching capability.

Back in the old days there were standards for input levels and the like, but that seems to have gone out the window with Digital Winter- almost as if digital would be the only thing you would listen to, so many CD players and DACs have high voltage outputs as they are intended to drive the amp directly. Its a hubris of sorts (it may be Digital Winter but I find new LPs all the time) and you wind up with too much gain if a line stage gets interjected. I understand that money is always an issue but it remains true that you get what you pay for. I wish more digital gear had jumper switches like the Wadia stuff that would allow you to select different output levels- it would make this stuff easier!

Thanks for the clarification Atmasphere.

In the case of my S&B TVC, I run true balanced output from the transformers and balanced interconnects to Jensen JT-11P4-1 input transformers which do the conversion back to single-ended for my amps.

Except in the case of my fully differential DIY Audiotropic PP 7591A amp which takes balanced inputs directly into the 1st stage.

Cable length/impedence and noise don't really seem to be a big factor here as long as my sources are capable of driving my amps.

So, Clio, you also find too much gain in some sources, such as CD using the Electra? I find that pseudo passives such as the active First Sound Paramount I use have the same issue. Usually is fine, with LP or Phono preamp through (low gain) but when it comes to CDP or other sources, sometimes it can get loud too fast. I wonder if this is the implementation of a preamp with OA2 tubes paired with 6922 or something else. The fact is that I have come to the realization that I have plenty of gain and that it can distort the original way things were recorded. I also have a pair of EVS nude Ultimate Attenuators and it does the job of attenuating the gain as transparently as possible, but how Atmasphere has already stated, sometimes, pursuying the last bit of purity sometimes has more drawbacks than benefits....

Nevertheless, I still dream of have one less stage, if possible in the signal chain.

Has anyone heard the SILVER ROCKS somewhere?

Paul K

Paul K - Funny, the Joule uses OA2 tubes as well, along with a pair of 6EM7 in the power supply. The signal path has a 5751 and 6350 for the mu follower. It is a pretty low gain preamp, but my amp is 30db and .8V sensitivity. I also have no issue with the phono preamp. Perhaps the EVS is the best solution for me at the moment, but I'm pretty curious at what my custom K&K will do.

The Silver Rock passives look nice, but they're out of my price range.

Based on my experience I'm inclined to believe Atmasphere regarding the role interconnects play in a passive configuration, as well as the inevitable artifacts generated by most active line stages. I have a Bent Noh with S&B TX-102 trannies, and while it is a very smooth and uncoloured device, I've never gotten it to work really well with any of the amps I've had. By "really well" I mean combining that smoothness and even-handed midrange frequency response with a sense of dynamic life, air, microdetail and enough bass extension. In contrast, the mid-priced tube line stages I have (Canary and Audion) give the music back its life and dynamics, but at the expense of some frequency colourations - and the level of detail is very dependent on the tubes in use.

Up to that point its a fairly even tradeoff of tastes - you pays your money and you takes your choice. However, a really good line stage like the Tom Evans Vibe/Pulse shows up both the passive and the tube units very convincngly, providing the best of each camp with lots of detail, transparency and musicality, while inflicting very few colorations on the sound. I have no doubt higher end tube units than mine would show a similar level of performance.

Passives for me are renewed evidence of the TANSTAAFL principle - "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch".