VTL MB-450 "Generations"


I read the following in a 'goner's virtual system (from a 2004 Sterophile review).

"Since Chip Stern's update on VTL's second-generation MB-450 Signature back in October 2002, the amplifier has undergone further changes and improvements. It now features a completely redesigned input stage that incorporates advances made during the development of VTL's mighty Siegfried monoblocks."

This implies to me that there are at least 3 "generations" of this amp.
1 - When first introduced
2 - Available at the time of Oct. 2002 review
3 - Sometime before April 2004 when above line was printed
(they have a new version on the way but I won't count that)

Does anyone know how you could tell what "Generation" you had, serial number? other markings? Can you get a 1G or 2G upgraded to a 3G? If anyone is "in" on the nuances of the MB-450's life I would be interested in learning more.

Thanks for your input.
128x128bmcleod
So - if needed - what kind of a job is it to replace the caps? I'm decent with a soldering iron but I've mostly upgraded old tube guitar amps, not something with this level of build quality. I had thought of rolling to KT88's on next tube swap myself, what kinds of changes do you hear?

I agree handles are nice but I would give them up for that faceplate (just have to get help putting them in place!) It also sounds like the auto-bias will come at a cost. Thanks for the details on the caps. -Bruce
Hi Bruce: You've done more on your own with your old tube guitar amps than I've done myself with mine. The VTL circuit board seems pretty spacious and easy to access as far as modern hi-fi tube amps go. This is a job that I personally want to enlist a tech with skills and knowledge I don't have for, but you may be able to take care of it yourself. In either case, the cost should be far lower than what VTL wants, not even figuring in shipping. Just don't expect to get any help or advice (including parts or schematics) from VTL under any circumstances other than sending your amps to their factory, regardless of whether you buy new and are in warranty (in which case you'd be told to go through your dealer) or whether you buy used with no warranty expectations and are willing to pay.

My experiences with tube swaps are detailed on Albert Porter's system thread and some other archived threads, in addition to the experiences of others, so there's plenty to read on that around here. I haven't tried everything, but I can tell you that it's not just a 6550 vs. KT88 question; different brands of each sound different from each other.
I checked with VTL today and they never put infinicaps in the stnadard MB-450's. The only do it as a special mod. The standard is the MIT Multicaps.

The infinicap upgrade is $1,200 for both amps. I am going to have it done when they are less busy. Right now the wait time is 3 to 4 months.
Good info on the not-quite-DIY cap upgrades as well as VTL's price and timeframe. Zaikes you mentioned Michael Percy who I hadn't heard of but found his web site, is that where you get your parts? He's more or less in my neck of the woods (about an hour north of here). Don't suppose he does tech work?

On the "softstart" feature would having or not having this affect ones ability to install these amps remotely? That is leave the power switches on and turn them on/off via a power conditioner.
"I checked with VTL today and they never put InfiniCaps in the stnadard MB-450's. They only do it as a special mod. The standard is the MIT MultiCaps."
That sounds right, however, I believe if you go back far enough, even the MultiCaps were an optional upgrade, but I don't know the time frame on this.

Bruce: Michael Percy is a well-known parts-seller in the industry. He is not a tech for hire as far as I know, but I suppose he may be able to recommend someone fairly local to you.

Your question about remote turn-on, whether via the soft-start modules or not, is one you'll probably have to ask VTL.