Integrated amp for my Sonus Faber Guarneri

..I was very enchanted by your Cellist friends description, also the fact he plays a Guarneri. I am a violinist indeed playing a violin by a maker of that family (there are five of them, believe it or not, the most famous being "del Gesu", the youngest nephew of my Pietro)
I loved mine, but incidentally now use Merlin TSM's
Cannot help you further, feeling you must use speaker for what they are intended; My experience with Accuphase E550 and later Berning ZH270 were outstanding; I personnally could not quite stand the flash character. In difference to a violin, which is a tool, speakers loose that quality, when to glossy. Sorry not much use.
Btw I feel the Yamahas 1000 are fantastic, heard them once at a guys, but he also had a pair of 10000's and they trumped them, thats life.

It's definitely NOT the amp...Test results

I took everyone's advice and tried out some more amps yesterday, in a 3-hour listening test at the shop where I bought the GH's. On recommendation of the owner, I tried the following amps that were in the shop (it's a used audio shop) and heard the general qualities below. I kept everything constant except the amp.

Recordings (in both players):

Wagner e Venezia, Winter & Winter (wonderful outdoor chamber concert, with extremely detailed outdoor audience sounds)

A Solo - P. Pandolfo - Cello suites (a favorite)

Rachmaninov - Rhapsody On A Theme Of Paganini - The USSR Ministry Of Culture Symphony Orchestra

A Window In Time - Rachmaninoff on a Bosendorfer (amazing reproduction from his paper recordings)

Segovia - Suite No. 3, Courante

Ella and Luis - "Summertime"

'Trane and Miles - "Round Midnight"

Nat and Natalie Cole - "Unforgettable" - Capitol Collector's Series

Cassandra Wilson - "Love is Blindness" - New Moon Daughter

Lisa Ekdahl - "Give me that slow knowing smile"

The Beatles - "Can't buy me love" (for fun)

Bits of some others

Sources:
- Njoe Tjoeb CD4000 player with 24/96 upsampler and Siemens 7308 Gold pin tubes (my own unit)

- iDecco playing WAV files from iPod (my own units)

Cabling by "Transparent"

Preamp:
McIntosh C-40

Amps and impressions
1. Luxman B-10 (SS) monoblocks (huge, heavy, 500 W/ch each)
EXTREMELY detailed, something like old Quad electrostics. I could discriminate clearly among among many people talking and feel where they were sitting relative to each other, even a few sparrow chirps, feet shuffling, etc. in the long intro to Wagner e Venezia. The strings were perfectly separated from each other. The overall feeling was "dry" though, and completely lacked lower notes.

2. Jeff Rowland 501 monoblocks (SS) (pleasingly small and light, 500 W/ch)
Nowhere near the detail of the Luxman blocks, but a warmer "wetter" sound and much stronger low notes. A kind of unnatural, "electronic" quality.

3. Luxman MA-88 monoblocks (tube)
Sharp and harsh on high notes. Didn't listen long.

4. Triode 845 Signature monoblocks (tube)
Much nicer sound than the MA-88, above, but something struck me also as "unnatural" about it.

What all of these told me consistently is that the "smallness" of the soundstage, or "being further away in the audience," as Lloydelee21 put it, is a characteristic of the speakers and not related to my amp, sources, or cabling.

It also showed me that in no way is my McIntosh MA6800 underpowered in terms of delivering bass or width of soundstage, as many of us (including me) suspected. The MA6800 is less detailed than the high-powered monoblocks above, or the Krell/Goldmund combinations I listened to before I bought these GH's, but I prefer the overall warmth and balance among instruments the MA6800 provides.

The Jeff Rowland 501 and especially Luxman B-10 showed me weaknesses in the iDecco's reproduction of WAV files from the iPod compared to the same WAV files played on my CD player, as Daveyf pointed out.

The GH's are truly amazing in how detailed they can be and also how revealing of the various characteristics of the amps and recordings played through them. However, as small speakers, they are limited in the "depth" or "width" of the soundstage (I wish I had more accurate audio vocabulary at my disposal) compared to my floor-standers.

As far as I can see, the only thing left that I can test in my last week of test time of the with the GH's (which is costing me about US$1000, by the way) is how they sound with a subwoofer, as others and Lloydelee21 in particular have suggested.

Lloydelee21:
While I was testing, someone brought in and sold a Velodyne DLS-R subwoofer to the shop. I was not allowed to try it, because it was not yet officially "owned" by the shop yet, but I have first dibs on buying it for a home trial or at least trying it (for free) at the shop. In your opinion, is this Velodyne DLS-R a decent unit to match with the GH's?

Failing the subwoofer test will definitely get either me or the GHs thrown out by wifey (read the previous post I had referred to...).

Hi D-I-L-Eye,

Continuing to do your homework! i am not surprised by your findings...the amp will provide detailing and quality based on amplification...but not a massively different soundstage nor boost in bass, at least not compared with our current amp.

as to the trial sub, i have not heard this one, but did some background checking on it and read thru the specs on the Velodyne website. In general, this sub should give you an idea of what is possible, but it is not a sub that will really be up to the quality of sound that your G produces. but as a test of whether the sub does it for you, it should suffice. some pointers based on the specs:

1. there are 2 ways to test the sub...use its internal crossover, or dont. try both.

2. if you use the internal crossover, use the line-level inputs...not the speaker cable connections. in other words, interconnects from pre-amp to sub...and then interconnects from sub to amp.

i would use the 80hz cut off, not the 100hz cut off on high pass. since it is a gentle 6db slope, i would probably set the low pass around 45-55hz on the sub...too much higher and you may find it "bleeds" up into the high bass territory (100hz) and then you get a muddier sound.

3. if you avoid the internal crossover, then again use interconnects and line-level inputs. the easiest way to do this is to get a pair of RCA adaptors which have one input and two outputs. that way, you stick the adaptor in the back of the preamp...with the 2 outputs, you put one pair of interconnects from preamp to amp, and one pair from preamp to sub.

again, set the low pass crossover around 45-55hz and play around with the volume setting to get the right blend.

in the end, this will give you an idea of what is possible...though the bass quality and quantity will not be the same as using the Velodyne DD-series which is their top level (and appropriate for use with G).

good luck and let us all know how it goes.

it sounds like a bit of trouble...but in reality, if you get the Velodyne to trial, just make sure to ask for a pair of interconnects and the adaptors. (if your preamp has 2 preamp outs, then you of course do not need the adaptors). My preamp happens to have two outs, so i use one to amp, and one to the sub. (i still use sub even with the SF strads) and it makes a noticeable difference. but my low pass crossover is probably closer to 35hz.

good luck!!!!!!!!!!

Deaf, You should look to the preamp... as I said before, as the culprit regarding your "smallness" of the soundstage! Luckily, I am familiar with the Mac C-40 and therein lies your problem. Pity you were changing amps, but didn't think to change preamps..:0(
In my system the GH's are anything but small in their ability to reproduce a soundstage. Mini-monitors, which these are in a sense, are well known for their imaging abilities...IMHO the GH's have this in spades.

Hello Loydelee21 - I finally got the sub, but I need some more help with the connections.

The sub has low-pass input and high-pass output RCA jacks.

Connecting the low-pass RCA input on the sub to the pre-out output of the pre-amp section of my integrated amp (McIntosh MA6800) gives me low, rumbly, thumpy bass, the volume and low-crossover point of which I can adjust. This just sounds basically like the GH's as they were, but with some rumbly bass underneath.

I tried the sub connected this way at the shop with some screechy little "Mission" speakers, and it sounded much more integrated than what I'm getting at home with the GH's, so I imagine I need to also connect the high-pass crossover as well.

What I don't get is where on the integrated amp to connect the high-pass output from the sub. Your #2, above says to connect the line-level outputs to the AMP, but the manual says to connect those to the "line-in PRE-AMP input," while my amp has no RCA connection labeled as such.

The amp has the following RCA inputs:

Phono/Aux, CD1, CD2, Tuner, Tape1, Tape2, Tape3, Video.

It also has an "pwr amp in" set of jacks next to the "pre-amp out." Should I connect the high-pass line output to this "pwr amp in" jack instead of the "line-in PRE-AMP input" that the manual cites?

I tried that, but it doesn't seem to make much difference in sound.

As for your suggested wiring #3, since mine is an integrated, I assume I don't need the RCA splitters, am I right?

Sorry to ask such dumb questions, but I certainly don't want to somehow damage my new amp or the GH's.

Getting desparate in terms of time, with just 3 days to go with my trial and wifey adamant that I should send the GH's back.