Preamplifier: Yes or NO ?

it seems to me that an audiofile forum is a place where perosnal opinions and preferences are raised. in fact, people express their attitudes about many things.

newbee, you ask a good question and you are straight forward. i like that.

i will try to answer the question regarding presentation of opinions which are diametrically opposed to the "conventional wisdom" and opposed to many who read and post their opinions in this forum.

first, i am an independent thinking person and by nature, somewhat iconoclastic.

i have had a lot of experience listening to a variety of stereo systems. as such, i have some very strong opinions.

my central hypothesis is that most stereo systems are imbalnced, with too much energy in the region 1000 to 3000 hz.

yes, this is an opinion. i can't prove it any more than somewhat who disagrees with me.

i am trying to have a civil discourse with people who disagree with me. it is unfortunate that some take my comments personally. it is only audio--material things.

as to the ego. i have strong convinctions and am willing to assert them. i do not benefit in any way from the decisions and attitudes others may have regarding topics of an audio nature. if someone agrees with me and buys something, i do not gain. in fact, i may not even be aware of such a purchase.

i have a lot of schooling beyond college and have a philosopical bent. i guess you could say i like to debate.
debating and discussion keeps my brain cells from atrophying, so i guess i should thank you for keeping me on my toes.

you can draw your own conclusions as to whether or not i have an ego, beyond what what would be construed as a normal sense of self.

i hope this clears the air.

Okay... I have Wadia 861 and Emm Labs Dcc-2. I have the Audio Research Ref II mk II, Krell KRC-HR and MBL 6010D so I can speak with some authority on this. I have ever tried to run the internal volume controls direct to the amp. Theoretically, one less cable, one lesselectronic box should certainly make the sound more true to the source. Alas, in this as in many audiophile things, I have found this not to be the truth. The internal units have generally no gain, and many CDs will require a bit of gain, these volume controls are generally attenuators, not variable gain controls. For instance, Grover Washington Winelight would not play loud enough without a real preamplifier. Elduende, I agree with you that without a preamplifier the Wadia 861 at least lost body. I added the ARC Ref2 MKII and got added body, and more rounded and full sound, a more "lifelike" event. Additionally a preamp allows me to adjust the balance between channels for better soundstaging, etc. My next revelation was just recently. I was running the dcc-2 direct to a tube amp and JMLab Alto Be's. for two years. I kept thinking the tube amp needed biasing or something, as piano sounded incredibly distorted, edgy, and basically seemed like it was dynamically overwhelming the amp, or so I thought. I purchased MBL101e's and noticed the same thing, and replaced the driver tubes on the amp as the bias was dead nuts on. It made no difference and in fact the distortion and edgyness sounded worse on the 101e's. My dealer inserted the MBL 6010d in the system, and suddenly there was no distortion, the music was much more of a whole, and much more of an event. The soundstage deepenned. The whole system was transformed even more than when I tried solid state monoblocks vs the tube amp, which is what lead me to try the preamp. I bought the preamp on the spot. Adcom makes a preamp that was rated Class A by Sterophile though. I had it in a second system, and it had a bypass switch, to just end up with a passive attenuator. The thing to me sounded like crap compared to the "bypass" position, it was an eye opening experience. So perhaps trying a passive device might be your cup of tea. Additionally some recordings are out of phase, generally preamps have a phase button so that one can fix the problem. I might have been totally satisfied with the Alto Be's if I had tried a preamp first sad to say.

Cheers,
Chris

As to the SUBSTANCE of mrtennis's assertion :that a tubed pre might be helpful in decreasing digital fatigue due to the poor execution of most digital, there may be some truth in it. Assuming proper execution ( low noise from source component) and excellent extraction of information ( cutting edge DAC's etc.) there is still a "digital" sound which is ameliorated by various output stage strategies. A TAS roundtable once brought up sibilance ( a real microphone artifact) being lessened by tubes and did this mean that tubes "smear" ( alter/color) the sound to a more pleasing one ? I think it is not a coincidence that Alexs'(APL) latest creations use low noise/error components, a dizzying array of DACs ( high info extraction) and then a TUBED output stage. Is this because tubes are more accurate than solid state( true to the ones and zeros as they come off the disc ) or because they sound better because digital is an imperfect medium in reproducing what sounds like live music ? I don't pretend to know the answer but it might be that in the absense of such an output strategy a tube preamp might improve the quality of sound and decrease digital fatigue even if it is not more "accurate" in the strictest sense of the word. - Jim

+1 votes for pre-amps.

I would also note its not just a matter of impedance matching. I have a dCS Delius that, at least according to the specs, should have had no problems driving my ARC VT100s. But, I had the classic "no pre-amp" problems--music lost punch, dynamics. I slapped in an ARC LS-8 and the world became much better.

YMMV.

Preamp all the way... I've owned the Wadia 27ix and it never sounded good unless I had a preamp in the chain... more body, more emotive, etc. I also recently heard the Meitner front-end both directly to the amp and with a pre- in the mix... again, the preamp adds just that extra palpability that makes music sound like music.

Just my preferences.

Kevin