Why so expensive??

Greenelec, that may be true, but there is still great sounding equipment that does not cost a fortune, hand-made stuff, and then there is other stuff that costs 3x-10x and no better, or sometimes marginally better sounding. Both fellas (I assume they are men -Manley and DeHavilland may be exceptions) face the same design costs, tooling and prototyping problems yet one is able to go to market for much less. As far as quality of sound, try the blind test and see if you can consistently pick and prefer the much more expensive stuff. Not to say there isn't expensive stuff that isn't consistently better (my CATJL2 for one IMHO) Again assuming the same basic topology, try the test. In fact, I rememeber how hard it was for folks at the NYC stereo show to discern between a 30 watt EL34 tube amp and a 200 watt 1970s SS Denon amp - that was food for thought.

hi pubul57:

your hypothesis that audiophiles are looking for the best sound is an interesting statement.

no one has stated what "best" sound is, and how to determine when and if "best" sound has been achieved.

there is more than one conception of "best" sound and so "best" sound does not exist.

a lot of people are looking to achieve sound quality that is considered to be excellent according to audio experts.

some people just want to buy an expensive component that nobody owns, or has some unusual technology or appearance. for such people, sound is not the primary consideration.

the above mentioned customer is a likely candidate for 5 or 6 figure amps and preamps.

a manufacture does not need to sell too many $100,000 + components to sustain his/her business enterprise. and there is some intelligence in a business model which stresses selling a few very expensive products rather than many less expensive products.

Mrtennis, I suspect you are right, there are other factors in some our purchases beyond the search for better or sound or best sound, I sometimes seek equipment because I'm interested in seeing how single-ended tubes sound, or an EL84 amp sounds etc - that is, curiosity and love of the equipment and the hobby. I also agree that a "sell a few for more" strategy can be a good business model and perhaps answers the original question "why so expensive?".

I suspect (could be wrong) that many of us make the choice to buy the $10,000 amp versus the $3,000 amp thinking it is "better" in providing more convincing, moving, "realistic" sound (how ever we define it or hear it), and that to some extent the price differential is legitimate in that it fulfills that promise due to "better" parts and materials that we believe to be necessary for improved sound. I think that for a long time I naively believed this; to a great extent I no longer do. I've come to see that less can be more, simplicty in design usually sounds better, and the relationship between $$$$ and sound quality is not direct (though there is some connection). As I get older, the idea of lower powered, tube integrateds (2 or 4 power tubes) appeals to me more and more.

Every industry has it's zentih product.
Would you pay $1,000 for a glass of wine?
Would you pay $519 for MFSL Pink Floyd-The Wall (see Ebay)
Would you pay $54,000,000 for a Van Gogh painting?
Would you pay $20,000,000 for a ride on the Space Shuttle?
Would you pay $350,000,000 to Alex Rodriguez?

There can't be one answer. It's beyond supply and demand! It may be ego for the consumer, greed for the producer!
Maybe they don't even expect to sell these $350,000 amplifiers, but it is something for us to talk about isn't it? And sometimes, someone actually does purchase one!!

If I can point out a few things:

Anyone who objects to the price might want to do a serious price analysis on what the parts cost, the cost of labor, the cost of certification (such as in the EU), the cost of shipping, the cost of reviewers on the take, the cost of advertising, the cost of rent, utilities, the phone, IP service and the like, the cost of administration such as accounting, the cost of shows like CES and RMAF, the cost of warranty, the cost of out of spec parts that suppliers took you to the cleaners for, the cost of Federal, state and city fees and taxation...

Add to that the fact that some of out here who got into this really want to see how well our technologies can perform if we go all out. IOW, the game is not worth playing if you don't enjoy it and give it your ALL.

I concede that some manufacturers appear to be gouging. But I can point to a lot that are not. What we have found is that there is a segment of the audio market that is willing to pay for true state of the art (as opposed to fake state of the art) and they have the ears to know.

If you choose your system based on size, cost, heat, weight constraints, the resulting sound will be a crap shoot. If you choose the system entirely based on the sound being the best that you understand, the result will be entirely different- a transformation.

I also believe that the 'best' exists as a possibililty. I concede that most people have not heard it, and in that world as they have already found out, its all about taste. But the fact of the matter is that the best is real, IOW it it possible. If you've not heard it yet, that's OK, but I would not let that stop you from trying!! Isn't that a large part of what drives the high end of any endeavor?

All the Best,

-Ralph