Dartzeel 108 vs Ayre Mr-X

I wish to disagree with something that Raquel stated.

She stated "Being roughly twice as powerful, the Ayre may be better on unusually inefficient speakers. The darTZeel punches above its weight class, however, and can do big orchestral on inefficient speakers known to be current-hungry (e.g., the original Salons)."

I disagree because of an A/B test that my friend and I did at his house. We compared the DarTZeel against the Lamm M2.2 monoblocks (a 220 wpc hybrid design). He is using the Rockport Antares speakers, which has specifications that are rather average, (89.3 sensitivity and an impedance of 4 ohms), although granted, it does have a 13" woofer to drive. Therefore, I do not consider this speaker to be "unusually inefficient".

The Lamm M2.2 drove the speaker, and particularly, the bass driver admirably. The DarTZeel did not come close to matching the bass response of the Lamms. It clearly had run out of power during loud orchestral passages, and particularly using a taiko drum test my friend has (on the Burmeister Sampler No. 3, as I recall). If I were to choose the DarTZeel, I would make sure that I had either a relatively easy speaker to drive (i.e. with a sensitivity of 92 or greater), or a true 8 ohm impedance, (or better yet, both.) Or, if your speakers are not true full range speakers, (i.e. go down flat to 20 hz), the DarTZeel might be a very good choice.

That being said, I really, really liked the sound of the DarTZeel, to the point that I can, and have, stated that it is my favorite solid state amplifier. I thought that the soundstaging, imaging and the mid-range was about as good as any amplifier I have ever heard, including the Lamm M2.2s. (My friend felt the same way, in case you are wondering.)
(FYI, I felt that the Lamm's treble response was slightly better too, (mostly because I felt it had better decay), but only just slightly, and that might be because I am more used to the Lamm's. So that is probably more a matter of taste.)

Those are my two cents worth anyway. YMMV.

FYI, I have not had a chance to audition the Ayre amplifiers as yet, but I do hope to do so, as my local dealer has them.

kurt,

if you really wanna hear the dart shine at its best listen to it with an speakers that have a powered woofer. As good as the wp7 are, once I got the evolution acoustic mm2 speakers with the dart it became capable of providing all the bass response you would want. I also used to own the lamm 2.2 and am telling ya that the dart combination with the right speakers is magical. I just listened to art pepper sacd and it felt like you were hearing it in a wonderful small club. Props for the playback design cd player for also bringing all the yumminess of the recording alive. For something different, I played the Who Quadrophenia lp, not the better mastered versions either, on a inexpensive technics turntable and it truly rocked.

I have also not heard the ayre so given its reputation it may well be pretty special too but nothing I have ever heard in solid state for jazz or rock listening compares to the dartzeel in the midrange (where most of the recording is) when properly setup. Unfortunately, the dartzeel is expensive and fussy about setup so those are drawbacks. But, if you are patient and can drop some serious coin on the dart combo and the right speakers, I doubt anyone listening to jazz or rock would be anything less than positively thrilled.

While you may churn up some interesting experiences such as Kurt's direct comparison, I would require a personal home audition for products at this level. Personally, I trust most of Kurt's information and a first hand A/B on a familiar system can be valuable information.

Same with preamplification. Another brand would have to add something desirable to the system that either the dartZeel or the Ayre pres don't. For now, more importantly than which amp or pre is what speaker system?

As everyone can see, I have created some enemies here.

Audiofool is well known here, he especially hates Usher speakers which are praised worldwide by both owners and professional reviewers. I loved my Usher BE-718, therefore he hates me.

For those who are interested, the 3 different systems I heard are:

Sooloo to Ayre KX-R to Ayre MX-R to Avalon ISIS
Ayre CDP to Spectral/Ayre KX-R to Ayre MX-R to Avalon ISIS
Ayre CPD to Ayre KX-R to Ayre MX-R to an Italian speaker which I can't remember the name, but cost $10k+

In 2 different rooms, 3 different days, and many different software.

I am not saying Ayre MX-R is bad, I am sure it's not since it's loved by so many. I am saying before you put your hard earned cash on it, be sure it's what you want. It could be system synergy, it could be the room, it could be anything, but what I heard in all 3 occasions were lifeless and boring to the nth degree. Even my not so critical non-audiophile wife said she prefered the simple system (Usher Be-718) I had at home.

Unlike Bar81 and Audiofool, I am quite neutral and don't insult others just because someone doesn't like the gears I own. If I like what I have, great, I don't need the whole world to agree with me.

You might like them, but you might not.

Grow up.