Need Zu Definition Pro Subwoofer Array Amp for $1k


Hello everyone! I'd appreciate your guidance. I also sent an email to Adam at Zu to get his feedback.

I'm trying to match a stereo amp or pair of monoblocks (or dual mono amp) for my Zu Pro speakers passive woofer arrays. The front arrays are driven by a Yamamoto A-08S.

My other gear:
Canary CA-903 Line Stage Preamp
Ayre CX-7e CDP
Roksan Radius 5 TT w/Zyx Airy S cart.
Canary CA-400 Phono stage preamp
Rane PEQ55

My budget for the subwoofer amp is around $500-$1000, though I could stretch that a bit if an amazing deal surfaced. After spending a few days reading through MANY, MANY, MANY posts and on-line reviews, here are the options I'm considering:
Emotiva XPA-2
Nomad Niagra
Classe CA-100 or DR-9
Carver Silver 7t monoblocks (a SS copy of the Silver 7 tube monoblocks)
Odyssey Stratos
Belles 150A Hot Rod Version or 350A
McCormack DNA-1
Krell KAV250a or KST-100
Bryston 2B-SST or Bryston 4b Pro
Musical Fidelity Supercharger 550K - ok, this is out of my price range, but do I need this much power to control the woofer array?

One other consideration is I'd prefer, though not a requirement, that the amp accept XLR connections b/c I must pass the signal from my preamp through the Rane PEQ55 to the subwoofer amp. This will allow me to filter the signal below 40-65hz and below for the subwoofer array (the subwoofer drivers go down to 16hz and up to 1khz). The Rane PEQ55 has XLR connectors only and RCA/XLR cables are harder to come by on the used market (I prefer not to use cheater plugs), so an amp with XLR connectors would be a better option for me. Of course I can get around this with an XLR to RCA cable, but I'd prefer XLR to XLR.

Thanks,
Mark

PS I found a post on Agon about the Pro woofer arrays that was kind of helpful:
12-01-06: Miklorsmith
While the rear arrays of the Pro's seems easy, with their high efficiency, my experience has been anything but.

First, I had a Bel Canto e.one 300, which should have plenty of output. It didn't. Sean at Zu told me to try a conventional Class A/B amp. I found an Adcom 555II, which has 200 wpc and should have been a champ. It wasn't.

I then tried an inexpensive NAD amp which fared no better. All these amps had the same problem of insufficient output and insufficient definition.

Then, I tried the amp circuit of a 60 wpc Audiolab amp - here we go, much better! Then, I went to the local stereo shop and traded the Adcom for an old Hafler 220 DH, with about 110 wpc. I'm sure it gets better, but this amp at $210 is the best I've had.

I'd call Sean and get his votes. Zu has certainly heard more Pro setups than anybody and can surely direct you well. Don't accept anything less than superlative bass. And, don't be afraid to cross over higher than 40 hz. Try 65 hz, which feels to me to blend very well with the fronts and provide some excellent midbass pop which is not possible with the front array.

INSERT FROM ME: The poster ultimately went with a Crown K2 amp which he swears by, though I'm not leaning toward the Crown amp because of the other options I listed above.
aceboympk
Aceboympk,
Its a tuff one... If you were to get the plate amps from parts express I suggest the ones that I believe have the parametric eq right on them. Its just like a 5 band or something which is really all you need and simplifies much more vs. the Rane.. Also you could recover the cost if that works out just selling the Rane on Ebay for 400 or whatever and you are even! You would be shocked even on this line array of woofers that 100 watts or 400 watts is really not a huge difference. The quality bass and blending I found was simply running the right setup vs. worrying about power or "what the optimal EQ setting is" because these speakers will react well with less finicky integration and "Lost bass nodes" if you simply run them as if they were one integrated speaker, thats why I suggest as many have go ahead and not be afraid to run these up in the 100 hz plus range, these are not Subwoofers in a conventional sense like Movies are rated for THX etc... To run 80 hz and below. Yes Zu for years have even themselves suggested running them at 40 hz which is where they designed the fronts to cut off, but believe me the Re-enforcement of the backs running you more full range giving you the "Punch" up above 80 and 100 hz definitely will most likely serve most recordings much better.

Again you have some decisions to make as to how easy or complicated you want to make this. Also how much really to spend. I can tell you whether you run a 100 dollar plate amp or a 1000 dollar combo pro rig you can end up with better than expected results depending on the room. Only issue is the plates and making sure they can be mounted and kept cool, if they are A-B type, which A-B vs. the Class D amps do sometimes sound much more robust and natural fill type bass. I mean I would for now see if you want to go with the Rane or not.

Is your Preamp XLR true balanced? If not than you might want to go the Plate amp route and eliminate converting back and fourth. If it is True balanced, well than you can keep it clean and make it all Rack gear using the Rane on top of a good XLR pro amp, it does not have to be a crown, as a matter of fact the QSC amps are a little cheaper and probably even better for the application with 300 to 600 watt ranges, but be careful there are many models and some can come with pretty loud fans, although most are 2 speed models that will not be noticed most of the time at low setting, and the Zu's really are efficient so they won't draw them that much. However again efficiency is a real trick here, has nothing to do with how overdriven an amp can get from driving an in-efficient load or even the impedance on these speakers which stays pretty stable at basically 8 ohms, probably dipping down in the 4 or 5 ohm range, but simply low frequencys will sweat an amp much more.

Best amp possible, My opinion although I would never spend this much even used on this application, would be a Mcintosh like 352 or 300... One that is true balanced, and they have relatively low damping factors around 100 - 200. They would really sound organic, but you would end up dropping 2000 to 3000 on an amp and not worth it in this application, so find something comprable otherwise. There are many used XLR amps around, but in the Audio realm over here vs. PRO you have to be careful they are really XLR balanced, not just a dummy jack that is XLR on the back, and that they are a higher input impedance, like I said I would stay with amp inputs of 20k ohms(20,000) or higher. Don't worry about wattage, but worry about quality and current drive, a 50 watt Class A amp would probably drive these better than a Cheap 500 watt Class D, but your talking more money.

If you really want to try a killer amp, the Monarchy Mono blocks are really sweet class A amps, true balanced, No feedback, will Crush those 10" drivers, but maybe just for plenty of Dynamic peak power you would want their like 100 watt per channel plus versions. They are also 100,000 ohm inputs, can be driven passivley with no preamp. So I think they would be excellent. Used you can get a pair around 1000 bucks, even monarchy might be running deals right now, but they do run very hot as they are 100% class A power, but would have an iron grip and sound like pure finess on these. I own a pair of the SM 70's which are sweeter but only 70 watts, they would work fine too, but driven off a Rane really putting them to the test with all super low frequencies I don't know the results. Oh and my monarchys in true balanced XLR easily beat the bass levels out vs. my Old Crown K1.. But totally different setup and applications. Remember my claims are only on very high efficiency and well impedance matched systems..No doubt 400 watt crowns in some speaker applications will be a better bet and run cooler.
This looks like a really short sweet solution!

http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=688

SC-1250 Subwoofer Amplifier $995.00

DESCRIPTION
The Velodyne SC-1250 amplifier is a combination high-quality 1250W Class D amplifier, with built-in DSP room correction. Velodyne developed this amplifier for their home theater installer based network and their Contract Series subwoofers.
The amplifier section is more powerful than the 1250W rating would indicate. It is capable of significantly more power under transient conditions and it tends to be a fair amount more powerful than most 1000W plate amplifiers. The difference is noticeable with most of our high-output Exodus Subwoofers, giving additional headroom before the onset of clipping.

The DSP room measurement tool is the real kicker. While not as flexible as the SMS-1 solution, it does allow for an Auto-EQ room measurement & equalization. This is the perfect solution for someone who wants a high quality amp, and a no-nonsense set-up routine for any passive subwoofer.



SPECIFICATIONS
High quality 1250W, 3000W burst amplifier.
High Pass 80Hz (6dB/octave) crossover for main speakers to help reduce distortion.
Low Pass Crossover 30-160Hz, 24dB/octave defeatable.
Inputs: Line and Speaker Level
Outputs: Two subwoofers (limited to 4 Ohm nominal load total), one line-level with 80Hz high pass filter.
Phase: 0°, 90°, 180°, 270°
Dimensions: 4 ¼" x 17.0" x 13.0"




Undertow,

Thank you so much again. I know that reading "thank you" messages may mean little, but I am VERY thankful for the time you put into answering my questions so clearly and thoroughly. Thank you!

My preamp (Canary CA-903) only has RCA outputs, which is the main reason I am shying away from using the Rane which only accepts XLR inputs.

I think the Velodyne SC-1250 is the right solution for me. I don't have any software to "dial in" the correct bass levels. The Velodyne SC-1250 includes a microphone to help me do the set up for my room which is ideal. In addition, the SC-1250 has RCA connections so I don't need a pair of RCA to XLR IC's which will help keep the costs down. BTW, the SC-1250 comes with a remote control which is a huge plus. Vanns is selling the Velodyne SC-1250 for $999 and they're including a pair of 8" Velodyne SC-8 subwoofers and shipping is free. I need one of these in our bedroom and I'm sure I can put the other to use somewhere :-)

The only concern I have is whether or not the Velodyne SC-1250 will support the signal down to 16hz which is the floor for the Zu woofers. Will it?

If so, I'll pick up this unit because it seems like the overall best solution. I know Velodyne makes very reputable subwoofers, so I expect the amp to sound really good.

Unless of course you have any other suggestions that are better than the Velodyne SC-1250. :-)

Thanks again,
Mark
I spoke with the sales rep at Vanns and the SC-1250 only goes down to 30hz. Seems there is a 24db loss for each octave below 30hz.

The Monarchy blocks look very good. They are running a 2 for 1 special right now, so a pair would be under $1179. A pair of SM-70's is on Agon for $1k. For $200 more I'll go with the SM-100 Delux Mk2 amps.

I have a call into C.C. Poon, CEO of Monarchy, to discuss the application and determine which amps are the best fit.

I found a less than favorable review done back in 2004 by hometheaterhifi written by Jason Victor Serinus. He wasn't very impressed by the amps, though his equipment budget is 10 times as high as mine. For example, he wrote:
This review must thus be placed in perspective. The Elrod EPS-3 power cables I plugged into the amplifiers list for $1100 each. My Elrod EPS Signature powercords that I use elsewhere in the system cost $1700 each. Contrast that to the price of the amps. It is doubtful that many audiophiles who own $16,000 speakers, a $10,000 DAC/preamp, over $20,000 worth of cabling, a custom transport, and a kaboodle of tweaks are likely to set their sites on these diminutive amps. The odds are that they’ll go for the bigger stuff.

It is equally questionable whether mating C.C.’s bargain products with such revealing components does them an ultimate service. More modestly priced components rarely offer consummate resolving power, and are generally more forgiving of amps built to a price point.

He liked the Monarchy Hyprbids.

Anyway, I think the amps have been upgraded since 2004 based on Monarchy's website.

I'll keep you posted.

Regards,
Mark
Reviews and applications are never always in line...The SM 100 is not quiet as good for really critical Audiophile needs as the SM 70's are. Don't worry about it, trust me the Monarchys are capable of the best and for your application its even sillier as they are in fact only going to do low frequency anyway if you go with the 100's. I believe Monarchy will give you a trial run and you will be a charged a re-stock fee if they did not work out. Yes speak with C.C. Poon he will guide you. I know they would work rather well, but again you could go for something with a little more power and less heat no doubt.

That is strange on the Velodyn? I would almost try it if its possible and return, but that would be ABSOLUTELY silly if in fact Velodyn one of the Kings in subwoofers did not produce a unit that would play down to the standard 20 hz range capability... Hell the Monarchys even though the spec. does not say it I believe will drop in well under 10 hz!

By the way I am still on board for the Velodyn, I think it will produce the frequencies just fine, by the way you will have a nearly impossible time getting anything under the 'A on a steinway piano or whatever at 27 hz to play, the speaker and the room just will not probably do it, you will get some feeling, but thats all that occurs anyway. Even cutoff at 25 hz will play 99.9% of any Techno/ artificial Rap music with all the low end power and authority possible. Rock, Jazz don't get to hung up on specifics, go hear something and use something that works for you.

Too bad you just missed a 4 day old ad on one of these from audiogon, sold quick, it sold for 600 bucks or something, its retail is like 950, its a little more muster and goes very low apparently against the velodyn! However no remote, or digital mic correction... But I have heard they are pretty good. see links They are all different links, but not sure why when posted to audiogon they all look the same! Just go to each one.

http://www.amplifiers.org.uk/anthony-gallo/anthony-gallo-reference-3-sa-amplifier/

http://www.petertyson.co.uk/ebuttonz/ebz_product_pages/anthony_gallo_reference_3_sa.shtml

http://canadianhifi.com/products/detailed/1329.htm

http://www.soundsandcinema.com/cgi-bin/hifi/REF3SA1.html?id=QNXynXU7

Good Luck