Prima Luna Dialogue 2 or Cayin A100?

Dramapsycho,

Try installing EL34's output tubes; I can't believe that they would be 'bright.' Also, give the amp/tubes a few weeks to break-in; it needs a couple of hundred of hours to settle-in.

I had a Prima Luna Prologue Two for one month and then returned it. I loved how it looked and the build quality, but found the high-end harsh, the mids muddled, and everything overly "colored," while my wife disliked the sound even more than me, and disliked having no tone controls.

Had I seen this thread earlier I would have let you know this in advance, as it was only a bot over a week ago that I returned it. My speakers are very clear and revealing, though. I didn't want to bother trying different tubes because I had only one month of use within the return period and I was very busy.

Mine was used and in super-good condition for less than half price, and I got my money back. The shop sold it again the same day. It is a very highly-rated amp with a big cult following, so it must sound great with compatible equipment.

It looked so nice between my black piano, black speakers, and black CD player that it was hard to give-up, even though multiple listenings always returned the same verdict - harsh!

Sorry, I just noticed you got the Dialogue, whereas I had the Prologue. I am surprised, as I had imagined the Dialogue should be steps up above the Prologue, yet from your post maybe not.

My speakers sets are Yamaha NS-1000X, modified B&W 805N in one room, and Rogers LS2a in another. Same Prima Luna sound problems on all. Could be my room set-ups, but I never had the high-end harshness any of with my three previous amps.

I've decided I might just not be a "tube guy," and I'm looking for an SS integrated now.

Dramapsycho, As indicated in my first post, tubes make a huge difference and I have not cared for OEM tubes in Primaluna products at all! But it is synergy thing and its hard to recommend tube type/brand replacements without having heard your system and understand what you mean when you say 'bright' relatively speaking.

First though I will say that the 12AX7's I have seen are usually EH12AX7A's and I do not like them at all! If you want to help cure the highs try some re-issue Mullards for a bit of warmth, or some EI12AX7's (long grey plates) which are near identical to old Tele's in tone and you can get a clear balanced tone but its not rolled off - works well I think with power tubes that are warmish in nature ( I like them with SED EL34's for example). I also like the JJ12AU7's in the Primaluna's - I find them very clean and they don't seem to add much to the tone of the 12AX7's. The JJ's and Mullards are cheap and easy to find. The EI's are only a bit more expensive but they are discontinued and a bit harder to find. Then of course there are a bunch of NOS candidates out there but I would reserve that experience for later when you are really up to fine tuning, unless of course you have lots of money.

The OEM KT88's are probably contributing to your problem. Very few folks have ever commended them. The problem is identifying a KT88 which is warm in tone. I'd probably rely on Kevin Deal's recommendation for that at least until I had a chance to explore options.

Part of the problem comes from deciding whether to select a linear tube or a colored tube. Most KT88's, like EL34's are not linear (except perhaps the re-issue Gold Lion) and most 6550's and 6L6GC's are linear or at least less colored. But that is about all you can say - from there out its all about synergy and desire.

FWIW tuning a tube amp to match your system is one of the really great things about tube amps. Options abound, just don't let it burn you out. Take your time and read a lot about other folks experiences with tube types/brands and see how much of that might apply to you. Use the Tube Forum at the Audio Asylum. There are some outstanding contributors on that site.

Hope that helps a bit. Have fun!

Another amp for consideration should be the Ming Da EL 34A/B.
These sound very well balanced and can drive most speakers with well above average control.
As good as most amps several times their price.A great example of modern tube amps with no sonic weaknesses or peculiarities.
Also excellent build quality and absolutely silent.

You can buy them direct via Ornec or New York Sound