Bel Canto Ref 1000 vs. Spectron Musician III Mk 2


Has anyone compared in their own systems the Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mk II with the Spectron Musician III Mk2? If so, what was your preference and why?

I'm presently using a Cary SLP-05 pre. The speakers are Martin Logan CLX. I have had the Bel Canto in my system previously and thought quite highly of it. No dealers to request a Spectron from to try so interested in forum members view of the latest version.
kiwi_1282001
Sorry Audiozen, the Class D amp has been around long before 1968! Not knowing the age of your Godfather and perported "inventor" of Class D Amps, my guess is that he may have been an infant at best when Class D amps were first invented. Not that such a fact should interfer or negate his work with furthering Class D amplification.

Funny thing Audiozen, I am sure there are many BC owners that would make a similar statement; "you gotta be kidding me! comparing a Spectron to a Bel Canto". Both seem like awfully short-sighted, emotional comments. After all, there are those than can confirm with a high degree of certainty that a Honda minivan is a much better vehicle than a Corvette/Porsche/Viper/etc. . . my two dogs, both kids and camping gear would agree with that statement on a lot of days!

Michael_moskowich - those are pretty strong accusations you are making. The problem with your statement is that no such posting in your thread history confirms this statement about inquiring about Spectron amps (perhaps it was via another website). Yet Approximately one year earlier than this post, you do show up in another post waxing poetically about Spectron amps.

As an individual looking into Spectron and interested in gaining a better understanding about their peroformance and capabilities, one does get a feeling about the referenced "Spectron Police" based on the very limited number of extremely aggressive posters claiming they are the best amps possible. Yet with each upgrade and new version, the performance is astounding, mind boggling, "twice as good" (as one Spectron poster put it). This makes it all seem somewhat questionable. If the amp (before the upgrade) was purportedly the best and a simple upgrade from one model or version to the very next makes it twice as good, this raises suspicion.

One of the items that concerns me, as a prospective buyer (preferably used) is the upgrades and model changes. While I don't know the exact number of model changes, upgrades, and "doubling down" to mono that have been made in the past 7 years (in reading the threads, it seems like a lot). I am always a little concerned that buying such a piece of equipment needs what almost seems like annual upgrades, or worse, the need to add a second amp.

I must confess that I am a class A amp fan. I have tried A/B and also class D amps (was not impressed in enough areas then, 3 years ago). I have owned tubed and SS amps, SET amps and yes, even made the mistake of running multi-channel amps in bridging my HT and 2-channel needs (won't make that mistake again).

Please don't take the above comments wrong, I am very interested in trying the Spectron amps and will likely do so in the near term (and report my opinions after sufficient listening). Like every other component and brand out there, there are individuals who have bought and sold them, due to some failure (in the prior owners opinion) of the product. For those of us that are considering a new component, it is nice to be able to hear of the short comings as well as the attributes of any product. People by nature are suspicious of a product that has a very narrow band of hard core supporters that attack anybody who is contrary to their belief system (this is not just an audio issue). Unfortunately, such actions do more to discredit their beliefs than they do to discredit those who counter their belief system.

From the mouths of the fans of Spectron (those that own, not "professional" reviewers who I have little confidence in), they do sound like great amps and purportedly deliver much of what I am seeking. The build up of these amps by the supporters has greatly raised my expectations to that of a level of performance that will so blow away anything that I have heard that the difference will be immediately noticeable, apparent and unmistakeable. This can be a good thing and a bad thing, as the fact that they are light weight, run cool, use little energy are not factors in my equipment making decision. The sound performance and characteristics are what matters. I live in MI and sometimes a nice hot Class A amp is just what I am seeking on a warm night - even when not listening to music! ;)

What I would be interesting in learning, from both current owners and past owners of the Spectron amps is the following:
What are its greatest attributes?
At what points is its performance not notably better or worse than most other high quality amps?
What are its greatest weaknesses (FYI - none is not an acceptable answer as everything has a weakness)?

I would rather dampen my expectations a bit and become a bit more practical as to what the amps will deliver in more areas. Thanks in advance to any and all individuals who have owned, sold, and carefully auditioned these amps. Some reference as to system componentry would be a plus as a reference for me.
What I would be interesting in learning, from both current owners and past owners of the Spectron amps is the following:
What are its greatest attributes?
At what points is its performance not notably better or worse than most other high quality amps?
What are its greatest weaknesses (FYI - none is not an acceptable answer as everything has a weakness)?

This is a good line of enquiry by Ckoffend and i've be very interested in the replies.

By way of update my auditions have expanded to include the Sanders Magtech amplifier (which is not Class D) but produces high power (read high voltage needed for ESL's) but runs cold.
Ckoffend,

"Michael_moskowich... The problem with your statement is that no such posting in your thread history confirms this statement about inquiring about Spectron amps... "

#1 Below is the thread I started about two years ago when I was searching for THE amplifier for my Watt/Puppy 8 (today Sasha) where I did inquired about Spectron:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1239382999

#2 My point was (snd still is) very simply - there are always people who like and dislike anything under they sky. You got to try!!! I did and then I started to build the system around my Sasha+Spectron and I am immensely happy.

You do whatever you want - just don;t lie about my postings

Mike
"Sorry Audiozen, the Class D amp has been around long before 1968! Not knowing the age of your Godfather and perported "inventor" of Class D Amps, my guess is that he may have been an infant at best when Class D amps were first invented "

Ckoffend,

Spectron Audio claims tot he contribution to class D amplifier as following (from their web site):

=========================================
Historical Prospective
------------------------
from Sound & Vision "50 Greatest A/V Innovations: The most revolutionary products & technologies of the past 50 years" January 2008

"Digital Amplifiers:
Going back to the Infinity SWAMP 1 of the mid-1970s, digital amps have had a checkered history, but they seem finally to have turned the corner in terms of reliability and performance. Highly efficient and cool-running, they promise to play a bigger role in the future."

At that time Spectron's President John Ulrick was president and co-founder of Infinity Systems, famous for its pioneering development of the combination of the servo woofer with the electrostatic speaker. He introduced SWAMP-1, the first commercially available class D amplifier, into the hi-fi audio world at CES 1974 - exactly as credited above by the Sound & Vision.
=======================================================

Not more not less. If "Sound & Vision " could acknowledge their work as one of 50 greatest A/V innovations so can I

You disagree? Fine, we all can live with it - just don;t distort the MEANING of Audiozen post.

Mike
"Come on!! As everyone knows, circuit wizard John Ulrick
founder of Infinity, built the first class D amp back in
'68 and put in a Infinity active subwoofer. Brilliant!!"

The first class D amplifier was built long before this (a simple google search will provide the details and history), I don't know how letting the facts get in the way is distorting the meaning of a proclaimed factual statement?

Your post of 2 years ago, which you kindly provided the link to, and which I did read prior to my past posting review. As your OP stated, you were inquiring about the color of the faceplate of Spectron amps.

My questions, the only points of importance to me are laid out at the end of my post. It is the answers to these Qs and points of interest that I (and possibly others) are interested in. If I were not considering a Spectron amp, I would not spend my time on such a forum thread.

My experience in garnering impressions of equipment in terms of performance is that often people that have owned and then sold equipment can be the best at addressing the performance of said equipment. Unfortunately it is observed often on this site and other forums that current owners always feel their present equipment is the "best". Is this due to pride of ownership, self-justification, blind belief, reality? Obviously, if its reality then its great, but all too often this is not the case!

A prior owner has the nice ability to remove many of the interfering emotional aspects of reviewing the equipment previously owned. It is always especially nice to talk to or learn from people that have sold a piece, only to greatly regret it later or even those that haven't regretted it. Every item has its strengths and weaknesses, those of us considering a piece want the ability to weigh them against each other. Like you (Michael), I own Wilson speakers and love them. Have looked for years to try to find something I like better (as I recognize there are flaws in the Wilsons). In the end, I keep ending up back with Wilson speakers, knowing their strengths and weaknesses vs. other tried speaker's stengths and weaknesses. While I love Wilsons, it does not mean they are for everybody, nor would I recommend them to everybody. Does that make them bad? No, of course not. I knew this when buying my first pair, but I also felt I understood the S&W and made my decision based on undertanding both.

I am only looking for similar feedback on the Spectron amps. To me, it is a logical approach (as long as I recognize that such feedback is only other's opinions).

It does concern me that anybody who says anything not glowing toward spectron amps get's called out. Their input is just as important as an extremely small group of voiciferous supporters/promoters.