Is this clipping?


I listen to jazz music mostly, using a 10 watt SET (300b) amp and a pair of high efficiency single driver speakers. Sounds great at any volume with any and all jazz. But when I try to play HEAVY rock music loudly, it sounds like a completely different system: The soundstage flattens, instruments blur, and dynamics are lost.
We all know that a system like mine is not intended for certain types of musics, but I wonder what is the main reason for this behavior. Is it clipping? Is it a characteristic of this particular type of tube or amplifier? Or is it a charateristic of full-range drivers like Fostex, Lowther, PhyHP?
psag
TGE,

But you say it sounded good with realistic dynamics and loudness in the studio, right?

So the recording would not seem to be the issue. Sounds like your amp clipped and blew the tweeter. Clipping is usually the case when a tweeter blows. Loud, dynamic passages are usually the culprit.

When I used to sell audio years ago, with vinyl as th emain source, many more tweeters were blown by 15 or 20 watt amps tha 80 or 120w/ch ones. Warped records in particular were problematic in that the low frequency noise created used up the power and left the actual music to clipp fairly easily. This is not an issue with digital and I believe fewer tweeters get fried these days in practice due to clipping with digital sources, even though clipping is still a common occurence and affects the sound quality otherwise..

Overdriving a speaker with too many clean watts without clipping can occur also and limit or distort the sound perhaps somewhat, but damage to the speaker is less common than when clipping occurs.

I'll try to check out the Metallica. The Metallica I do have (S&M, Metallica Black album) finally sounds about as good as it can sound these days since moving to the 500w/ch Icepower "monster" amp.
Yes in the studio it sounded great but we took things a step further and found that the levels were peaking according to pro tools. Now why we didn't notice this in the studio could be because when u listen to the same song over and over again ur ears become deaf to attention to detail. They need a break. Now I believe in heart of hearts that in todays world of digital distortion clipping occures ever more often without a listener pushing the limits. Again thats what I believe.

I look forward to you listening to the metallica album. All nightmare long is a killer tune. But seriously be carefull its filled with digital distortion which is what people maybe be getting confused with clipping.
Its true that a lot of modern "loudness wars" CDs feature peaked out/clipped waveforms in the recording. Combine that with amp clipping during playback and things can get really ugly!

I have 13000+ CD tracks on my music server. I often play them randomly like a jukebox. I usually set levels to be loud enough for most recordings. WHen a newer loudness wars track comes on the overall loudness is clearly audible in comparison to other tracks. If my amp were clipping, I would probably not dare do this. As is, there is no audible distortion or breakup with these loud tracks unless in the recording, but yes the relative volume level is apparent. These tracks generally still sound pretty good, but definitely loud and they often succeed in grabbing your attention which is what is intended.
Getting back to my particular system (300B, SET, high efficiency full-range driver), I believe that all the components are well-matched, and there is no clipping. My suspicion is that this combination of components (as good as they are for traditional types of music) cannot faithfully reproduce the type of dynamics that are encoded in some modern digital recordings. I'm talking about the types of recordings that go from loud to louder to ear-splitting.
One interesting thing about these drivers is that there is never a hint of visible cone movement regardless of the volume. This in contrast to the clearly visible excursion of multidriver designs.
SPL Calculator

Here's a tool you can use to determine how loud your system can go given 10w/ch if you know your speakers efficiency.

These things are usually just ballpark estimates to determine where you are on teh grand scale perhaps. Playing a system at a believed safe volume level still does not tell you how accurately transients are handled at various volumes for example, so the more subtle effects of clipping are still possible.

If you are way into the green zone based on how loud you like to listen given the factors considered, though, that probably means clipping is less likely than otherwise, at least.

It would not surprise me if some full range drivers are undersized overall and/or have limited driver excursion and are thus more of a challenge to produce high level volumes and realistic dynamics with than multi driver designs , especially with low power amps.

BTW the way, I think the OHM Walsh speakers I am fond of and use are perhaps one of teh best designs out there for maximizing what you can get out of a single driver. Everything up to 8000hz or so is produced by a single omnidirectional driver using Lincoln Walsh's principles that can be scaled up or down in size accordingly based on room size with minimal or any change to the resulting sound. Properly amplified and in room sizes typically found in residences (I use 500w/ch Icepower amps) these go as loud as you want with fantastic dynamics and essentially no sign of stress. They are true "muscle" speakers also capable of finesse and detail. Conventional box designs have to be much bigger and way more expensive to compete IMHO.

After many years of trying, I think my current combo of high power Icepower amps and the OHM Walsh speakers finally puts my system performance into the upper echelons of performance possible in regards to ability to go loud, clear, and dynamic yet for comparatively modest cost.