Preamp Deal of the Century

Hello Gang. Re: rolling regulators and rectifiers. Jazzdude's observations regarding soundstage stability and re: equipment employing vaccum tubed power supplies is rather astute and really very relevent here. Most of us with the supratek preamps know the pre is quite sensitive to the tubes employed in it.Ones choice of 6sn7's is usually chosen for it's voicing and its synergy with the partnered amps and speakers in a given room.Ones choice of rectifier and its marriage with the regulation tubes used will also add another spice to the recipe. A rather sublime artifact; that is not so easy to put your finger on right away because they do not directly affect tone or frequency. Soundstage stability is the primary reason why Mullard rectifiers have long been considered the rectifier of choice among tube amp enthusiast,guitar players,hobbyist and collectors alike.When employed in amplifiers using power tubes in the output,this soundstage stability artifact becomes a much larger issue and paramount with ones choice of rectifier. Ask yourself:Why do Mullard rectifiers command 5 to 10 times the price of the modern equivalents or other 5ar4's from the same vintage?[new or used] Collectors and speculators ya say? Think again! The soundstage stabilty thing that Jazzdude is talking about here is "THE" reason.Any competent guitar player with half an ear and a vintage tube amp will tell you the same and the mullard rectifier will last as long as the amp. ASA has really nailed down the sonic signature of the supratek and apptly penned it as being on the "clear side". NOW gang,just for fun....You want to hear "clearly" what Jazzdude is on about??? For those that are presently using a strong testing NOS mullard or bendex rectifier[90% minimum] Choose an appropriate live recording that you are very familiar with and would consider to having large dynamic swings and accompanied by a vocal.Pay particular attention to the precise placement or location and size of the vocalist on the stage. NOW pull your nos rectifier and replace it with the stock 5ar4/gz34,let it warm up a least 1/2 hour and replay it again. In my rig... the precise location of the vocalist will wander or slightly drift from his/or her precise place on the stage both laterally and vertically.The size does not change,but his/her location will drift. With the mullard in place,the vocalist is precicely focused in his/her own place on the stage.There is no drift,wander or shift. This artifact really becomes obvious in size and scale when the accompaning band gets cooking at the same time....drummers kicking,horns are honking,pianos a hammering in time with the vocal.Does everthing remain in scale and in the same place?does the drum kit get a little smaller or the cymbals wander slighty left or right of the drum kit? Or maybe the piano sounds wider on the bottom registers in relation to the upper keys when the band gets going. The piano size and scale [distortion thing] is one that is easily heard and can be very difficult to get right to begin with, let alone listening to rectifiers for chrissakes!However..Of all instrument,the piano is the easiest instrument to hear this drifting thing happen especially if accompanied by a human voice. Geez gang.....I think Im getting a little carried away here.Just try it people,let your ears be the judge!

Jazzdude

I am sitting with a Cortese and absolutely love it. Based on Mick's improvements on the Cortese and Grange that he announced on this thread late last fall, I am wondering whether I should jump to the Grange or send my Cortese off for an upgrade.

Please do let us all know about the Cabernet when you get it up and broken in and how is stacks up.

Which Supratek pre-amp do you have now ? Do the Cortese and Cabernet share most of the same tubes in their complements?

Rodger, thank you for listing your system. That was very forth right and I appreciate the sincere effort.

I think we are coming from different places. I am an all NOS tube, hard wired, SE triode, analog kinda guy. To me, Bryston SS through Nordost to metal dome Monitor spkrs couldn't be more of a bright combination. I'm not saying that any of these were "bad" choices, just ones that are place-specific "correct" IMHO; as in, what appears correct when you are at a certain place. With that said, I have recommended Bryston to people in certain situations, particularly when they want something to last forever, would like the 20 yr warranty idea for that reason, prefer dynamic headroom and detail as priorities and would never go tubes no matter how long they hung around the high end.

My intuition, if you don't mind me offering it, as a measure of your cognitive agility relative to your curiousity, is that you may want to move beyond where you are right now, its approach, at some point.

Cash is always a consideration, I know, at least it is for me, but others here may be able to give you some ideas to start off with. Or at least, give you some ideas on what you might try in the future.

I have the Sauvignon, the line-stage version of the Cortese. The Cabernet is the linestage version of the Grange. According to Mick the only tube complement difference between the two linestages is the 101D. There are at least 2 subs, the WE101D and WE101F. The WE101FA, WE216A might also work. These tubes are somewhat scarce but the good thing about them is that the WE datasheets state an average life of 40,000 hours. So one pair of NOS WE101D tubes could last over 4 years of 24/7 operation or the whole life of a preamp if you only leave it on a few hours a day.

Thanks Asa for your helpful and appreciated input. I was thinking that I my system was going to be on the brighter sound side and it will give me some reference of higher detail. I also wanted to experiment with the Subwoofer in the component mix. The Monitor Audio 3i speakers which I consider temporary for about 1 month or so will provide a medium of sound out only. My investment in the other components was significant for me and are all I want to invest (right now) into a total SS system. I did play the BP20 preamp through a Dennon POA 2400 SS Amp and I liked the clean blackness of the background. I think I would like to try a tube preamp with the Bryston 4B SST Amp at some near future point. I seriously considered tube equipment and I like good quality. $4K to $5K seems to be starting purchase point for good quality entry level tube equipment (for new preamp and amp)and I'm concerned I would want to upgrade (the tube Amp primarily) very shortly after. I prefer simple designs and few tube stages, the more tubes, more possible noise, complexity, troubleshooting and maintenance. Cary Audio would be my first choice to try for tube equipment. They are in Apex, NC and are about 12 ro 15 miles from me. I purchased the Bryston Preamps used so I could experiment and could, resell them if I pursued a tube preamp (which is strongly pulling at me). Because of brightness to be expected in my system I do not want to invest in good Monitor speakers until I learn and listen more. I understand that the tube based systems generally have a warmer, richer, and yet some detailed musical quality (lacking in powerful bass?). The balance of these characteristics I have not experienced for many years. I knew a person up in Toronto Canada that had a pair of Klipsch Corner Horns and 2-100 Watt Mono Amps (back in the 1983-84 time frame). The sound of that system was unbelievable and that was my tube reference. I distinctly remember clean and powerful. Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon never ever sounded so good to me as it did on that system :) Simple higher quality tube designs are more of interest to me. Regarding SS equipment, I looked at Krell and others new and used (new was out of the question for me to experiment with, and used prices were better of course however still high for used). I am cautious and aprehensive about older pure Class A or AB amp designs from a reliablity standpoint. The high heat dissipation, aging filter Capacitors and other components. My approach to the system I'm currently building is that it would be better to add desired levels of warmth ( combinations of tube preamp, cables and speakers) to taste to a brighter base system than to brighten up a very warm system. Then again, my friends...I have no good reference...yet. I look forward to sharing my experience in the future. Trial and error is a personal endeavor I suppose. Many of you probably relate to where I am at right now and already know better choices and can see possible mistakes ahead. All said and done, I'm having an adventure of learning and gaining more experience and I do really just want to listen and enjoy the music.

Any and all input is very welcomed.

Thank you,

Rodger