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Tube amp decision - Thoughts

Looking for a synergistic connection. I have, IMO, a very good setup. But I believe I errored in one important aspect. I always wanted a ruler flat response. I believe I achieved that. Great recordings sound great. But the majority of recordings seem to sound a bit thin in our system. Not to others audiophile types but I have to admit now that impact has got to be part of the quotient for greater enjoyment.

I have a pair of rather efficient Tyler Acoustic Decades. They sound very accurate as they're reputed to be and most folks run tube amps with them, perhaps to warm them up a bit.
My system consists of a Pass labs X350.5 which has played stellar through Dynaudio, MBL and AV123 Line Arrays.
An Allnic L3000 preamp really makes this system sing in 3D.
Sources are a VPI Scoutmaster and a modified Oppo BDP83SE backed by a BDP95 in stock form. A lot of attention has been paid to my AC.

It's all well and good but my family and I feel that it lacks impact and warmth with a lot of "modern" CD's or streamed FLAC files. I have Def Techs in our TV room which having built-in subs are pretty fun to listen to if not so transparent and refined. But it did drive home a weakness (perceived)in our 2 channel setup.

Having visited many audio shows, my wife and I always seemed to love the rooms with Prima Luna Dialogue amps playing in them. Of course they are generally partnered with NOLA speakers. That seemes to be an amazingingly synergistic combination. Rogue Audio amps as well seemed to captivate us. But there are a lot of great tube amps out there. Thus the post.

I'm going to build a pair of LS-9 line arrays. I owned the LS6's and sold them some time ago. These are also tube friendly speakers.

So given a $5500 dollar budget new or used, where to go?

Thanks for your responses.
128x128desalvo55
bavarian05
65 posts
 
Just throwing my two cents in here...
If you like the PrimaLuna sound, I would seriously consider the Dialogue Seven monoblocks provided you don't need balanced inputs. I have owned two of their integrateds (prologue two and dialogue two) and enjoyed them a lot. In my experience, the only thing that was missing was a bit of grunt and transparency, but with the sevens, you should likely have plenty of grunt and a couple of sets of Ceraballs from Finite Elemente will assist with the overall transparency as well. One other nice point is that you can work with Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio, whom I have dealt with a handful of times and he is always strait forward and does what he says he will do.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
4,637 posts
 
I have been looking at your system and think you have some very nice components. I owned the very same speaker you have and found they like power and IMHO no tube amp of 50 to 70 watts will do. Sensitivity ratings on paper don't often tell the whole story and these like power.

From your comments you enjoy the sound of tubes and I have a suggestion that may help you. First, the D1's are not relaxed sounding and would benefit from an amp with with sweet and refined tonality. If you want to keep them I would consider these two Hybrid amps.

Monarchy SE260 monos
Aesethix Atlas stereo amp

Both will give you what you are looking for. The Atlas amp is the better of the two and will cost you $4500 IF you can find one used. I use one on my Nola Viper Reference speakers. I am also annoyed by thin sounding recordings and female voices that hurt my ears at louder volumes. I am more sensitive to this as I get older. What you are experiencing is exactly why I purchased Nola speakers and this Atlas amp.

I have not heard a Pass amp but understand they are very good sounding and wonder if replacing the amp is really what is called for? For what it is worth, I have heard tube amps that are brighter and more forward sounding then some SS amps. I ended up moving on from the D1's because they did seem to attack me when I wanted to be drawn in. Very good speakers to be sure and the builder is simply a great person.
learsfool
1,206 posts
 
If you want the warmer sounding amp, I would strongly recommend the PrimaLuna over the Rogue - the Rogue units are quite a bit brighter in sound than the PrimaLuna, partly because they are higher wattage, but I am mainly referring to the respective "house sounds." I currently use a Dialouge 2 with my Klipsch Cornwalls, and I have some EL34's in there now and am really enjoying them - better than the stock KT88's, for sure, though those sound fine.
mitch2
1,911 posts
 
The hybrid idea by Grannyring is a good compromise and the amps listed are both solid. I would only add not to forget about Lamm's hybrid amps, the M1.2 Reference, which gives you 110wpc of fully Class A output (more natural sounding) plus the benefit of a tubed input stage, or the M2.2, which is more powerful (220wpc) and biased heavily (41wpc) in Class A before switching to Class A/B, also with a tubed input stage. I owned the M1.1 (predecessor to M1.2), which did a great job of powering 90dB, 4ohm Aerial 9's, until they would run out of steam at a quite loud volume. These are massively overbuilt which is why they sound unstrained, right up to their power limit...very highly recommended.
desalvo55's avatar
desalvo55 OP
205 posts
 
Those are some great suggestions - thanks.

My plan is to build a set of line arrays, the LS9's from Danny Richie. These are also tube friendly speakers.

I like the Decades and have already spoken with Tyler regarding an upgrade to Woodmeres. That's a $4K upgrade and I'm on the other side of the country with no boxes so it's expensive and complicated.

I know it's a problem with synergy. The Decades are great speakers but probably not designed for Rock & Roll. We listen to everything from Radiohead to Sia, Clapton to Indie, Brazilian to classical. We miss what the line arrays gave us in terms of low bass. Plus, I always wanted to build a set of speakers even though it is in kit form and has all the wood CNC cut and all the parts, drivers and crossovers to fully assemble.

So I'll end up with 2 sets of BIG speakers and one will have to go.

Hybrid are interesting. Always wanted to try the Butler amps which are a bit of a hybrid. Or is it hybred?

We love looking deep into the recording but want the impact of the musical event. Female vocals are especially important as we listen to a lot of female artists.

The Prima's would probably be a better choice than the Rogues. I see a number of Cary 120's on the market. Interesting.

The Allnic amps are crazy expensive! I'm lucky to have that pre! It's not going anywhere.

Thanks again for your responses.
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