Why does better power = better sound?

...Further proof that bad power can equal bad sound, and that even some components are the culprits, never mind your neighbour with the basement full of electrical motor powered wood working tools...

It is? A power cord is a passive device and cannot prevent a weak power supplies back EMF into the power line unless it is a choke equipped cord, which is hardly an expensive addition. Copper and insulation can't do that.

Everything cable related gets better with "age" (except us, I guess) and nothing gets worse with age in audio. Astounding!

I've worked with dielectrics for 30 years and every one gets worse (treeing performance, withstand performance, T&E's you name it) with age.

A good dielectric should not be able to "align" a charge as that indicates it isn't pure. Treeing is a common phenomenone caused by impurities in a dielectric. You don't want your dielectric to store a localized charge. It's properties should be very dull and consistent.

Noise in the power-line means nothing. It's what come out of your power supply on the DC rails that matters. TAHT is the food your electronics eats. The power supply should have ripple and transient supression that correspond with common line noise. Measure your DC rail for 24 hours and THEN decide what's a problem.

Better yet, measure a swept A/C test tone at the amplifier output and sync it to a clock and measure the difference (flip the phase) and see the remainder and try to line it up with the DC output noise. I just see a lot of wishing and no testing. I don't think the guys that sell all those cables and such really want you to, either.

Looking at the power cord is like going to the doctor and having your butt examined for a cold. We're looking at the wrong end first. Why go downstream until you prove imperfection at the destination and work back from there? I just don't see any data that supports the supposition(s) on power cords or even line conditioners. Sure, they get rid of noise...but that doesn't mean the unit you plug-in didn't too, or to a degree that is sufficient to be inaudible. So of course they "work" but that still doen't mean they do anything.

I'd also like to see the results of the DC Vcc on a transistor bank varied with noise components and measure the A/C output distortion component. What does it take to be heard? Do a double blind random tests. This would be VERY interesting.

Rower, you seem to feel that noise being generated either from components(ie-Sunfire sub) or elsewhere has no effect on the sound coming from our system?

Maybe, I misinterpret what you are saying.

But the Fluke test was visible proof of distortions that I heard in my system when the sub was used.And it also provided visual proof of less distortions on the line when the sub was out of the system.My ears told me something was wrong.The Fluke provided proof.Before using the Fluke,I could only trust my ears.Were they lieing to me?
Was I imagining that the sound with the sub was more ragged and irritating?
Was I just looking for reasons to not use a sub?Actually except for the grit,I quite preffered the sound with the sub providing some extra kick in the regions that the CLS's didn't reach.

I had a couple of other epiphanies years previous(1987) when I upgraded the power cord to a pair Quad 63 with DIY, and when I bypassed speaker fuses with copper DIY plugs(Audio Critic) (1980?).
I could hear the improvement,so did the fellow who bought my Quads, as he requested the DIY power cords with the purchase.
I now feel much safer with HiFi Spreme /WA chipped fuses in my system.
Were my ears lieing to me all this time over the course of several decades?Are they lieing to me now when I say the WA chips have improved the Supremes?

I don't know, but they were younger ears back then,and the power was purer than it is today.There were less people and less electronic gadgets in those days.Maybe that helped me hear the differences in the power cord and the negative effect of a fuse in the system.

Would I be able to hear the effects of the fuses if I didn't do anything to the power to my gear?
I can't say,except that my old ears can hear the benefit of the chips.

To me, this is proof enough that if one does nothing to address the isuues of the power going into your gear, the problems won't just go away or improve and heal itself over time.IF anything, things will get worse.Does WiFi have an effect on our systems?
I don't know, but I do know we are being bombared with stuff that was never around back in the 1980's. And there's no relief from it, it will only intensify.

Most electronics are quite capable of letting you hear distortions,at least the ones that I have used.
That they don't mask the power line distortions isn't a flaw in my book.Noise cancelling with the addition of more noisy electronics in the chain isn't my recipe for great sound.

I want the elimination or lessening of the noise on the line.

My electronics are sensitive to noise, or maybe it's just that my ears are good at sorting out the noise from the music.

In any case, I can tell when something is right and something is wrong, and the Fluke test was the inspiration for me to take the power more seriously.That and a friend who got into power conditioning before I did.
My group of audio friends each heard an improvement to one fellow's sound but there was nothing new gear wise.

He told us all that he did was to run a couple of dedicated lines.
Needless to say we all did the same.

I would like to think that most manufacturer's address power regulation as best they can, and to a price point.One reason why the most expensive amps usually have the better power supplies.

I've never heard any of the power regenerators,but those who have say this can be a good way to address some issues, and some folks have other opinions about power regenerators, so I would agree that at this moment there is no one size fits all solution to curing the power problem.

There are many different approches to the problem, from many companies,the thing to not loose sight of is the fact that they are addressing the same thing.

Please spare me the rhetoric that these companies exist only because of the neurosis of folks like me.

I've done enogh experimenting with wires over the years to be able to hear the difference between solid core and stranded wire,copper, silver and combination and the importance of upgraded connectors. Yes, I do run one direct line straight from the panel to a Furman IT 1210. This powers my cd player.The furman's receptcle was cut off and the bare wires are attached directly(with those twist on connectors)to the dedicated line.Also a Shunyata RZ1 receptacle has replaced the shabby one in the Furman that my cd player's Shunyata power cord is plugged into.The fewer connections the better, so use the best ones you can afford.

Does this sound better than when the cd player was plugged straight into the wall with stock cord?
Yes it does.
Does that mean that my Esoteric E03 was a flawed design, ?
I don't think so,but it did benefit from power conditioning and tweaking the power going into it.
It was good enough to be able to let me hear the differnces.

Perhaps inferior gear would not benefit as much from the attention I paid to the power going into mine.
Or perhaps it would benefit even more?

Decent well set up system with decent gear should be able to let you hear differences between power cords, fuses, interconnects and speaker wire,and it should be as easy to hear these differences/improvements as it is to hear differences in one power amp to the next.

But then some folks still feel they all sound the same.

And if they've done nothing to improve the power to their systems,they are probably correct.

The thing about better power is that you won't hear it until you do something about it.

Everything sounds great, until you do something that makes the sound even better.

Getting better sound is all about the things you do, you have to actively participate.

You can watch from the sidelines or get into the game, your choice.

...Decent well set up system with decent gear should be able to let you hear differences between power cords, fuses, interconnects and speaker wire, and it should be as easy to hear these differences/improvements as it is to hear differences in one power amp to the next...

No, they shouldn't. A carpenter judge a roof by what gets into the house, not standing on the roof outside considering what "could" get into the house looking at the sky. It's irrelevant to what's going on inside the house. The weather is already taken into account with the selection of the roof / power supply.

The power supply is the "roof" and should provide a pure DC inside environment. People measure all this "stuff" outside and NEVER measure the DC rails from the "inside". The power block should be isolated from the signal block, too. If it isn't the "roof" had a hole in it from the start, the type of shingles used makes no difference at that point.

I'm sorry, but I don't accept "outside" metrics to determine what's going on inside my equipment, and neither should you. What comes OUT of the power block (leaks through your ceiling) is the final, and only, verdict to the performance of your gear. DC is DC. It has no sound except to allow something else to make a sound. If your supply rail is DC, and doesn't sag...case closed.

Now, if you have crappy power block to signal block isolation, that could be considered a fault since a "perfect" power supply would be isolation by design. But, perfect isolation can't be achieved with a power cord or external device(changing the weather outside doesn't change the roof!).

So, what we see are external power supplies. Magnetic stuff is squared law diminished with distance so distance is your friend if you have magnetic permeability shield problems inside the power supply block.

Could a unit need an external supply to sound better? Sure, but MEASURE where the effect is going to be seen. In this case, the power supply could be 100% fine except for magnetic emissions that show up at the AC signal blocks. So, move it, or redesign the isolation. A power cord upstream to the wall won't fix it.

So until such time that we can accurately look just past the DC power block feeding the AC circuit, it's REAL hard for me to "buy" anything outside a line conditioner that stabilizes the input AC voltage if you have a rowdy AC line. This is indeed a problem.

So yes, you have to get in the game and at the right place. This is electronics, not emotion. Music is the emotion.

Hearing conductors? No, what I hear is the capacitance and inductance determined by the dielectric composition of the cable. There is no evidence of common conductor differences at "DC". Like it or not, 20-20K is DC with regards to the electromagnetic spectrum and the laws physics. The signal is 100% diffusion coupled through the wire from 20-20K at audio.

In the 1980's, a company let us listen to four speaker cables with four different dielectric properties, same conductors through out. Then, we listened to ONE of the four designs but with four different conductors; solid copper, stranded copper, silver coated stranded copper, and silver coated solid copper. In a BLIND test, we could differentiate TWO of the four speaker cable dielectrics sound but NONE of the conductor designs using the same dielectric.

When the emperor is naked, I say so. The only sound that was heard with expensive conductors was the ring at the cash register.

Rower- I need you to clarify something and I'm not busting your chops in asking this: if the power supply in a component is less than perfect, wouldn't it be affected by the power that is delivered from the wall?
Thanks in advance.
(and no agenda on my part, just trying to reconcile some of your points with my experience too).

I agree Whart, I would like Rower's input on what electronic gear he has measured or owns that doesn't benefit from a better power conditioner or power cord or fuse for that matter.It must be perfect and cost a lot more than what I have used over the years.

It's been my experience that wallplugging is fine.
Run a dedicated line and it's better,how come?
Why did the properly designed power stage react to the dedicated line,shouldn't there be no difference?My bad power supplies?

Going back to different kinds of wire and their sonic signature,way back when, I found out that bypassing the fuse in some speakers and amps with a chunk of wire was better than the fuse.Thanks to Peter Aczel and the "old" Audio Critic mag.
The music tightened up and was less diffuse sounding.
And different types of wire produced different audible results, which blindfolded or not, you could hear the differences between stranded and solid core.

It was differences in treble (more clear with solid core)and bass ( more full bodied with stranded),take your pick, vanilla or chocolate.
Both choices are right or wrong, but what is perfect?

If the power supplies were perfect, then there should have been no distinctions between a stock fuse, a solid core DIY fuse or a stranded wire fuse.I guess I've spent big bucks on junk, such as Martin Logan CLS, Maggies, Classe, VTL, Levinson, Quads, and more.

Perhaps my choice of gear isn't as perfect as Rower's and I don't have the equipment to spec out my choices.I just have my ears,but then that's what I use to listen with.I guess all the folks who like the sound of the above gear and also bought it was because the gear sounded good to their ears and most never measured the stuff.
I guess we were duped by all we read about that stuff,because if it lets us hear differences in cables and power cords then it must be inferior stuff.

If there can be no differences in using a better power cord on these products, according to Rower, and yet some hear differnces, then surely the quality of the gear is suspect,am I correct?

My ears tell me what I like and what I don't like and if there is an improvement or not they'll let me know if a purchase is warranted or not.But they maybe lieing to me, or so I've been told.

All of audio is a lie, or an illusion of reality,just as there is no neutral or musical benchmark, all is up to the individual's ability to discerne subtle shadings and all is open to interpretation and experience with live and recorded music, and playback systems of all sripes.
Your neutral is my coloured,my difference is your no difference.
The most "neutral",( insert component) has to be compared to what came before it and will be compared to what comes after it, so how can neutral ever be defined.It's always in flux.

If my power supply is inferior because it let's me hear the differences between wires,then I want more of that inferiority.If a solid core wire takes me from "neutral" to more "neutral" than a stranded wire did,then I guess that what my eyes percieve as physical differences in construction, jives with what my ears are telling me.

If twisting wires compared to untwisted looks different and sounds different due to noise cancellation in the twisted wires,is my power supply not up to par?

I've been a musician for over 45 years and I've had to learn how to pick the music apart and differentiate pitch and tone, so perhaps I have trained my ears to pick up sound differences in my hifi gear that may not be as discernable to others as they are to myself.

I wonder if Rower's sound is different late at night than it is during peak demand hours?

Now that would be something worthy of measuring.

And it would be interesting to know if the measurements synced with what he was hearing.

Hearing no difference but measuring differences can mean two things,that his power supplies are indeed immune to power conditions or that he is just unable to hear differences.

A blindman could never know if the emperor was clothed or not, and the deaf man will never hear the ring of the register.

I am glad that I can hear the register ring,and until I can't, I'll keep it ringing for all the right reasons.