Help with PC Audio Quality vs. CD


I hope someone with real experience can help out with this. I am having a hard time getting the same quality sound from a PC that I get from a CD player. I recently built a HTPC running Windows MCE and ripped all my cd's using lossless compression. I'm using an M-Aduio Audiophile 192 sound card and run a coax digital out of the PC to an external DAC and to my amps. It just sounds flat to me, not that it's not clear sounding, but the bass is weaker, I can hear a harshness that's not there if I run any old CD player to the DAC through the same connection. Has anyone else experienced this? I keep reading in this forum that people are saying how much better the computer transport is in theory, but I have yet to witness it. I heard that the Windows KMixer is the problem. I tried ASIO and Kernal Streaming drivers that are supposed to bypass this, and it sounds clearer, but still not as 3-dimentional and "black background" as a CD player (and I mean ANY cheap CD player, I've tried 3!)

Can someone out there with an external DAC try this and let me know their results? Use a DVD player or anything with a digital out... I don't get it. My soundcard alone cost 3 times as much as the cheap DVD player I tried and it doesn't sound as good. Anyone experience this or have any suggestions?

Here's my system so you can understand the sound I'm looking for.

I have an external MSB Link DAC III Full Nelson that I've been using for years and I really like the sound of it. I've been using a couple Sony CD changers and running them to a MSB Digital Director that will automatically switch between digital inputs, out to the DAC, then to a tube pre and tube power amp (modded dynaco ST70) and out to a pair of Monitor Audio GR10's. This system (with the right tubes) sounds so sweet to me. I'm into the huge soundstage, crisp, smooth sound - melty mid-range... you know, the analog tube sound!

I have experience in recording studios and work professionally in computers, so I have a good understanding of both, so don't be afraid to get technical with me. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Ben
thesauce
Hi Ben,

The reason I said that you shouldn't have to "go to all of this trouble" is that in your original post you reported acheiving sound that was noticeably inferior to "any old CD player." In my experience this is definately not normal. I have been able to equal or surpass entry level CD players without going through the same steps that you had to. It makes me believe that there was something wrong, incompatible, or just not working right in your PC originally.

I would also respectfully disagree with you that a "PC can surpass any transport if it is set up right." Don't be so sure until you have had world-class transports and DACs to compare to in your system at home. I've spent a lot of time with units reference-quality digital players at home and am fortunate enough to get to work with them every day, and believe me, equalling their sound, or even coming close is no easy feat. If it were that easy, no high end manufacturer would still be selling those very expensive reference products. Companies like Meridian, Linn and others, have been trying for years to get a PC/hard drive/buffered machine to make state-of-the-art sound, and haven't been able to. I am not aware of anyone who has yet demonstrated or even made a serious claim to be able to equal the world's best digital players with a PC. I'm not saying that it can't or won't happen. I can't wait until it does. But we aren't there yet.

My understanding of the USB method is that has the potential of being superior to SPDIF, but in terms of actual implementation thus far, has not acheived anywhere near its potential. One possible exception to this is supposed to be the USB DACs from Wavelength Audio (I have never heard them). See their web site for a technical discussion and more detailed theory on this matter. They get quite expensive though.

Anyway, I'm glad you are getting better results with your new setup. Good luck!
I am very new to PC played as a transport and I have a USB ps audio dac. Can someone tell me what is the best driver, player, or software to associate with my dac to make the sound better?
Well, this thread is a little old now, but I'm going to have to follow up on it. I am now using a Paradesia + USB DAC, so I'm running straight from the PC to the DAC, then to a Placette RVC and to my amp. It still isn't "quite" up to par as the CD transport to a MSB digital director (jitter correction) then to the DAC using glass toslinks. It sounds VERY good, and it's close... but it's just not quite there. Not quite as involving and the soundstage is not as deep... the transients are also slightly longer using the CD transport. I've tried Foobar, DS through Vista. I also tried the same glass toslinks out of the computer (using an external USB converter, nice modded linear power) to the jitter correction and to the DAC just like the CD player and it sounds REALLY close to the direct USB to the DAC, but barely not quite as good, and obviously not as good as the CD transport. I'm using CD's I burned from the music on the computer, so I know it's not a data loss issue. I'm stumped on the reason why, but as for now, CD still beats the Hard Drive in my experience. I guess the quest goes on!

Any suggestions?

Ben
It still isn't "quite" up to par as the CD transport to a MSB digital director (jitter correction) then to the DAC using glass toslinks. It sounds VERY good, and it's close... but it's just not quite there. Not quite as involving and the soundstage is not as deep...

That's interesting, Ben. For as much as I love my SB3 into my EAD DSP7000 Mk.III DAC, I have to admit it does not sound as good as my transport (Proceed PDT3) into the same DAC. As I said in a thread on the Digital forum, it's not really fair to say it doesn't "sound" as good. Tonally and in frequency response presentation it is right up there with my transport source. But it is lacking in exactly the same area you identify - the soundstage. Not as deep, and actually not quite as wide.
This is like asking CD quality versus Vinyl quality. The result depends entirely on the devices used. It can go either way. In this case, the SB3, which is very good and easy to use probably has higher jitter than the Proceed transport, or at least the jitter spectra is more objectionable. They probably both have high jitter IMO. The SB3 can be made much better than you can ever make the Proceed Transport. The technology of the network enables this. The SB3 just needs a reclocker to reduce jitter and it will undoubtedly pass up the transport by a large margin.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio