2. pc-audio
  3. 1168589271

Help with PC Audio Quality vs. CD

I hope someone with real experience can help out with this. I am having a hard time getting the same quality sound from a PC that I get from a CD player. I recently built a HTPC running Windows MCE and ripped all my cd's using lossless compression. I'm using an M-Aduio Audiophile 192 sound card and run a coax digital out of the PC to an external DAC and to my amps. It just sounds flat to me, not that it's not clear sounding, but the bass is weaker, I can hear a harshness that's not there if I run any old CD player to the DAC through the same connection. Has anyone else experienced this? I keep reading in this forum that people are saying how much better the computer transport is in theory, but I have yet to witness it. I heard that the Windows KMixer is the problem. I tried ASIO and Kernal Streaming drivers that are supposed to bypass this, and it sounds clearer, but still not as 3-dimentional and "black background" as a CD player (and I mean ANY cheap CD player, I've tried 3!)

Can someone out there with an external DAC try this and let me know their results? Use a DVD player or anything with a digital out... I don't get it. My soundcard alone cost 3 times as much as the cheap DVD player I tried and it doesn't sound as good. Anyone experience this or have any suggestions?

Here's my system so you can understand the sound I'm looking for.

I have an external MSB Link DAC III Full Nelson that I've been using for years and I really like the sound of it. I've been using a couple Sony CD changers and running them to a MSB Digital Director that will automatically switch between digital inputs, out to the DAC, then to a tube pre and tube power amp (modded dynaco ST70) and out to a pair of Monitor Audio GR10's. This system (with the right tubes) sounds so sweet to me. I'm into the huge soundstage, crisp, smooth sound - melty mid-range... you know, the analog tube sound!

I have experience in recording studios and work professionally in computers, so I have a good understanding of both, so don't be afraid to get technical with me. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Ben
thesauce
tonyptony
500 posts
 
It still isn't "quite" up to par as the CD transport to a MSB digital director (jitter correction) then to the DAC using glass toslinks. It sounds VERY good, and it's close... but it's just not quite there. Not quite as involving and the soundstage is not as deep...

That's interesting, Ben. For as much as I love my SB3 into my EAD DSP7000 Mk.III DAC, I have to admit it does not sound as good as my transport (Proceed PDT3) into the same DAC. As I said in a thread on the Digital forum, it's not really fair to say it doesn't "sound" as good. Tonally and in frequency response presentation it is right up there with my transport source. But it is lacking in exactly the same area you identify - the soundstage. Not as deep, and actually not quite as wide.
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
This is like asking CD quality versus Vinyl quality. The result depends entirely on the devices used. It can go either way. In this case, the SB3, which is very good and easy to use probably has higher jitter than the Proceed transport, or at least the jitter spectra is more objectionable. They probably both have high jitter IMO. The SB3 can be made much better than you can ever make the Proceed Transport. The technology of the network enables this. The SB3 just needs a reclocker to reduce jitter and it will undoubtedly pass up the transport by a large margin.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
regalma1
71 posts
 
Get a USB DAC and bypass the sound card. Or get a Squeeze Box. It should sound at least as good as any CD player with an equivalent quality DAC
thesauce OP
21 posts
 
Regalma1 -

I own a USB DAC, and it rocks, however, that's not totally true. I need to follow up on my last comments because I mis-stated something major in it. When I last tested the CD transport against the DAC, I had the DAC running from the USB input and not the glass toslinks. In theory, the direct USB should have sounded better, but in my setup it does not. It has taken a LOT of experimenting to get here, so I will share my experience with others and hopefully save them a lot of time.

Get a Trends UD-10 (USB to SPDIF converter) or similar device. Then upgrade the power to a linear power supply (absolutely necessary). Run a glass toslink from the USB converter to a jitter reduction unit (I use a MSB digital director). Then run glass to the DAC. With the digital director, I can have up to 6 digital sources that automatically switch when they get a signal. This way I could play back the CD transport and the computer at the same time and flip between the two, playing the same song at the same time. I could not tell a difference between the two! The computer sounds just as good now. I swear by the MSB digital director... going through that opens the soundstage and bass response that was lacking compared to the CD transport against the USB input to the DAC. And I'm talking the difference between sitting and listening to music for hours instead of just turning it off. It's what puts the music right into that place where it comes into the room with you and is so involving. That's what I need when I listen!

My girlfriend and other friends have also commented on it and agreed that going through the jitter reduction sounds better than direct USB, and they are not as freakish about sound as I am.

Yes, this may just be my system. Maybe Audioengr's equipment does this without using a seperate re-clocker (like the MSB I use) or just clocks it right in the first place. But what I'm trying to get at is that the direct USB doesn't always mean it's better!

Rock on!

Ben
thesauce OP
21 posts
 
Oh, forgot to mention... you gotta use Vista too. A mac might work as well, I dont know, but as far as Windows goes, Vista sound is excellent.

Ben
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