Hello Artar1,
I read your post a few entries back on constructing a rack using sandboxes. FWIW, I have just completed doing a project just like this and have posted pictures on my system page. I borrowed the concept from Chris Brady's web page and just used different materials, but basically it is hardwood and laminated MDF. The shelves that float on the sand are hard maple and I took Chris's idea and used that sticky backed foam insulator material to fill in the gap around the edges. This works great as I had to use a putty knife to hold the foam back to allow air to escape while I was installing the shelves. I have my table sitting on the top shelf, but it is a suspended Basis. The sandbox would work very well, IMHO, for a Teres or any other audio equipment for that matter. The trick with a mass loaded table would be to make the stand below the sandbox very heavy and rigid. Not really that hard to do. |
So as not to totally trash the product, MDF does have uses in audio, speaker cabinets for example. And there are also different formulas for MDF. But one should be judicious in where it is applied. As a former owner of a MDF-based TT I completely agree with the sentiments expressed here regarding its use as a plynth material.
I feel your Salamander pain, DougDeacon. I was using an Architype stand prior to building my own.
I am on a path to get to the decision point Artar is now at. I chose to make my decision between a mid to upper Basis line table and a Teres. I now have the Basis and hope to get started on the Teres after the New Year, if the gods continue to smile on my business. I'm hoping that my own little shoot out between these two makes will answer many of my questions regarding suspended vs. non-suspended, wood vs. acrylic, etc, etc. Since I can't do this in someone's showroom I decided to do it in my listening room. Talk about expensive hobbies. . .! |
Yes, Raul. I could use a better cartridge, but I chose not to at this time. I am not unhappy with the performance of my analog system in the least. As a matter of fact, I think it sounds fantastic. My intent is to learn, as you sometimes say, for myself the differences between theories as they have been implemented. I have simply chosen Basis and Teres (don't have it yet, but soon). I could have easily picked two others. Hey, its a hobby that keeps me off the streets and out of the bars. |
Thanks for your kind words, Artar. I like the 10t's also, but they are power hogs and have pushed tube amplification out of consideration. It can be done, but not at price I can afford.
I completely agree with the fact that the turntable makes the biggest difference. I have experienced this recently when I purchased a turntable, tonearm and cartridge. Then an opportunity came along for me to move up the same turntable line so I simply moved the arm and cartridge to the new table. I was amazed at how much more detail and bass was being pulled from each LP with the same cartridge and arm. The dynamics just seemed to wake up. This is one reason why I am choosing to keep my current cartridge and I can completely understand why Jphii would chose to stay with his. A good table will allow what might be thought of as lesser arm and/or cartridge to perform at their very best, which may be quite good. I'm sure if I took my Vector/Benz and mounted them on my old MMF 7 I could be led to think that the Vector was not worth the money I spent. |
Sure thing, DougDeacon! To all, I am now soliciting donations for my "Dexter's Analog Lab" project. :') |
Wow, this thread has come along way from a discussion about an $800 cartridge upgrade to talks about high-end tables and arms! No complaints here, I learn a great deal from threads such as this.
On the subject of shopping trips. My wife spent Saturday at a charity flee market that supports a day program for special needs adults. So she comes home with 3 records! Ok, so two of them were duplicates for me but it really is the thought that counts. This is just another indication to me that she is supporting my audio passion. I may have to start being nicer to her.
In the short two years of my analog rebirth I have discovered that with almost any of the modern tables that I can enjoy just about any type of music. I now listen to nearly everything from Bluegrass to Bach, though classic rock is my base, and I felt that even my former Music Hall did a good job on all of this music. I have learned that dynamics are probably most important when you consider music that might be described as rich and warm. The playback of so many musical passages are enhanced by the ability to provide that immediate tone and beat. You may not notice any deficiency with rock but you most certainly will with classical and even some Bluegrass. Things my old Dual table way back when could not deliver.
So maybe I am just reiterating what Twl has already stated, that you really can't go wrong with any of the better modern tables. If you can accept this then why shouldn't aesthetics come into the equation. We are visual creatures and will probably spend a good deal of time looking at our equipment while we are listening to it. |
Thanks for the valued insights, Tom. Based on your explanation it does make sense to me that the additional rotating mass can have a positive impact on bass response, which is what I have heard when I moved to a table with a much more massive platter. I suppose that in a similar fashion a more massive plinth has the same effect, being that it is more solidly "grounding" the arm and bearing so that the stylus has a better chance of translating all of the information in the groove.
I do understand your meaning in the quote from you that DougDeacon referenced. I think so many times we just engage in bench racing here on the forums, it is fun, but sometimes we loose touch with the reality that nothing is perfectly defined or modeled and certainly nothing is perfectly implemented. Perhaps I have an advantage in some small way because I don't fully understand what all of the tradeoffs are and how they impact the sound. Well advantage probably isn't the right word, ignorance is bliss is a better description of my current audio prowess. But I do love music and I get very excited each time I open a new door in this hobby. I just have to take a bite of the apple but it seems there could be a price to pay. |
DougDeacon, exactly why I'm keeping the Benz Glider for now! :) What I can't hear won't disappoint me! |
Twl does the lead loading in the acrylic platter do anything for bass response? I'm not accussing it of being bass shy cuz I don't know what the bass sounds like on any Teres. I do know that on other acrylic plattered tables that the bass seems to be greatly improved with more platter mass, or perhaps it is a combination of things? |
I'll second Rushton, I love my Rhea! Bought mine used on A'gon as well and at about the same price point. |
Artar, I'm pretty happy with the Rhea. When I was looking for a phono stage upgrade I had the Rhea and a BAT VK P10SE on the short list. Both are very good sounding units and I could be happy with either. Karma decided for me when a Rhea should up for sale that was within driving distance so that is what I ended up with. I'm an engineer so please forgive me if the following description of my impressions sounds a bit dry and this is also the first highend phono stage that I have had any long term experience with. The Rhea brought more of everything into my analog system. More highs, lows, dynamics. It was the bass improvement that I noticed first. The Rhea is also very quite. Some might find the sound a tad bright, but that will vary from person to person. It is a very good match for my VK 50SE which has 100Kohms of input impedance. BTW, that 10x thing is a rule of thumb, not a law of physics if you catch my meaning. The numbers for your system are close enough that only a listen in your system would allow you to know for sure. I do believe that as I continue to put better components in front of the Rhea that it will not get in the way and really allow differences to show.
Yes, the Rhea uses Velcro to fasten the top. This is actually a pretty good idea when you consider how much easier it is to roll tubes with a top that quickly lifts out of the way. The unit is a bit heavy so it would be a pain to lift it out of the rack and have to mess with screws to get the cover off. I haven't gotten to rolling in better tubes, which would probably help with the somewhat bright presentation. I want to get to know the sound with just the stock Sovteks. I do notice a rush when the needle is lifted as the circuits unload but I don't hear anything that interferes with my enjoyment of the music.
My previous phono stage was a fully modified EAR 834P, a very solid performer for the money and perhaps you could investigate that unit as a candidate. I recommend the basic unit without volume control. I had about $1000 into mine including the mods. I did have both phono stages in my system for a few weeks so I could really judge the difference. The EAR was noisier than the Rhea and sounded subdued and rolled off at both ends but the little guy made a good showing. |
Rushton is right on the money concerning my "bright" characterisation of the Rhea. To put things in context I was moving from a MMF 7/834P setup to a Basis 2001/Rhea combination. So it is understandable that at the time I would get this as a first impression. What little I have heard the BAT VK P10SE I would say that unit is a tad warmer than the Rhea, but they are really close. I would really love to hear an IO someday.
I haven't looked seriously into what tubes I might use in the Rhea but I will probably seek professional advice as it is critical to get the right, read quiet, tubes in the first stage. |
Very good choices, Artar1. I have considered most of that combo myself, except I had though of using the Encounter. Best of luck with it!
Chris, no problem about the 2001. Heck, I don't even know what it would do with a wood floor, though I suspect that it would not be an issue. I do agree with your engineer friend, maybe that's biased since I'm also an engineer, that making blanket statements isn't correct. However, I'm also a person who relies heavily on what my own experiences have taught me. This is why I want to get a Teres into my system and see for myself what the suspension/mass loaded stuff can do. Now that Chris is making wooden platters available as well as the 300 series bearing I have a much better chance at getting a very good Teres-based table.
I have tried to stay away from this whole issue with Raul but, Raul, I have to say that I get the impression that you are simply trolling for (looking for) an argument. You do have the right to voice your opinions but you don't have the right to have anyone respond to you. That is all I will ever say to you. |
