I use magnets, too. Lots of magnets. Colored magnets. Magnets on wood. Magnets on glass. Magnets on mirrors. Magnets on steel. Magnets on aluminum. Different colors for different materials. Yeah, baby! |
toddverrone wrote,
"That is funny, I use pebbles. Little colored pebbles I tape everywhere. And stickers I put on bar codes all over the house. It's magical!
Oh, wait, no, it's absurd and I don't do any of that. I get confused sometimes."
Uh, oh. I'm getting a bad feeling again.
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Wouldn’t the magnets on cables attract the electrons flowing through the cable, producing a big old clump of electrons?
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I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday. I have been using magnets for audio applications for almost 20 years. I have at least four products that incorporate magnets in their design, one of those products is what, ten years old. Magnets actually don’t have to be very powerful to have a powerful effect. Ceramic magnets are OK. It’s all about the colors and where they go. Everything you know about magnets and audio is wrong. 😄 Magnets are one of things that signal something lying underneath, something big. Perhaps a big can of worms! 😬 |
In fact magnetism, generally speaking, is very bad for the sound. Having electron tubes in proximity to large transformers is not good for the sound. Having any electronic elements or wiring in proximity to large transformers is bad for the sound. Even the induced magnetic field in is bad for the sound. In fact, the whole point of SHIELDING transformers is to REDUCE magnetic fields around ANYTHING carringly the audio signal and in some cases the chassis. My thesis, which was selected to be presented at the national AIAA conference, was on the dodgy subject of bombarding highly magnetized metal with high energy ions to produce low thrust for an engine to be used for interplanetary travel.
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Sabai wrote,
"geoffkait,
You stated, "In fact magnetism, generally speaking, is very bad for the sound." Not in my system. There are many people who use magnetic cables and find them superior to non-magnetic cables.
Please note that my earlier posting did not refer to using magnets with cables, although I do use that application, as well."
The magnetic induction cables avoid the induced magnetic field produced by conventional cables and use high permeability alloy for the conductor which would absorb any magnetic field that might exist anyway. So, that’s not a very good example to use to dispute by statement. 😄
I never said you did refer to using magnets with cables. Nor did I say magnets didn’t work in your system. I was making a general statement about magnetism. The magnet’s magnetic field B is orthogonal to the signal direction in cables so probably won’t interfere, depends how you’re using them. Generally speaking I have no problem whatsoever using magnets almost anywhere, especially when they are painted the right color for the application. Color is just as important as the magnet. I used or have used magnets for more than 15 years, both ceramic and neodymium types, for everything from wood bookshelves to glass to circuit boards to steel or aluminum chassis, to walls and ceilings. See, I told you it would open up a can of worms. |
Sabai, I already explained what I meant by that statement.
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jeffrey75
geooffkait,
This is from Wikipedia;
A magnetic cartridge (phono cartridge) is a type of transducer used in the playback of analog sound recordings called records on a record player, now commonly called a turntable because of its most prominent component but formally known as a phonograph in the US and a gramophone in the UK.
This from Dynavector;
The The DV XX-2 MKII retains the benefit of the flux damper but features the Alinco-5 magnet and the similar rigid construction to the Te Kaitora Rua. Alnico magnets exhibit high magnetic flux density combining with a low coercive therefore magnetic resistance is lower than other magnetic types such as rare earth and ferrite, providing the exceptional stability of the XX-2 MKII output voltage.
My point being magnetism or it’s field wields beneficial use in phono cartridges and interconnects to stabilize signal.
Your sarcasm concerning colors of magnets really rubbed me the wrong way. Magnets and magnetism have a defining place in audio your thesis does not...
..............................
You started out on the wrong foot by misspelling my name. You also probably need to read up a little bit on moving magnets and moving magnetic fields before rushing into this discussion. I never said ALL magnets were bad or that all magnetism is bad. You probably didn’t notice my saying I’ve been using magnets in my system for almost 20 years. (Yup, you guessed it, sarcasm)
Magnetism is High Fidelity magnetic conduction interconnects is apparently a good thing. However magnetism in conventional cables is not a good thing. Due to the induced magnetic field. Didn’t I already say that? (Sarcasm)
I wasn’t being sarcastic when I referred to colors and magnets. I suppose this is the star of the can of worms opening up. (Now I’m being sarcastic again)
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Jeffery75
geoffkait,
I have attempted to educate myself concerning magnets and colors,
are you referring to different alloys as color? That is the crux of my post
and what I misread into as being sarcasm.
i already explained that too. They're painted magnets. Either neodymium or ceramic. I also already explained different colors for different materials. Going a bit further, blue for anything steel, red for anything aluminum, green for any glass including mirrors, TV screen, any and all colors for wood.
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koestner
Geoffkait: "My thesis, which was selected to be presented at the national AIAA conference, was on the dodgy subject of bombarding highly magnetized metal with high energy ions to produce low thrust for an engine to be used for interplanetary travel."
Is that how you plan to make it back home?
Whoa! What?! Ouch!
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Herman
Geoffkait: Someone mentioned magnets were being used to cut down on RFI/EMI. That’s an interesting idea in light of the fact, no pun intended, that RF is comprised of photons which as we know have no magnetic charge.
to which Herman replied,
EMI stands for ElectroMagnetic Interference. RFI stands for Radio Frequency Interference which is comprised of electromagnetic waves, not photons.
Try to keep up with the discussion. Electromagnetic waves are comprised of photons. All electromagnetic waves. Light, X-rays, radio waves, what have you. They’re all photons.
then Herman wrote,
I’ll leave it to the group to decide who is correct.
That's mighty decent of you but I think we’ve already seen what happens when you let the group decide. 😩
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herman
The guy saying the paint color on magnets makes a difference is the same guy who told us several years ago that one of his little clocks affects the sound of a live symphony orchestra and the picture on a television even if the battery in the clock is dead. You decide who is worth listening to. That’s the last I’ll have to say about this individual. So lets drop all the snarky comments and silliness (paint colors on magnets make a difference) and talk some science.
I said this subject would open up a big of worms. Well, folks here come the worms. Just like I said. What’s funny is his plaintif call to drop the snarky comments. Pure gold!
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Herman
If you focus on what is really happening in a cable or any path that a signal follows then it makes sense that magnets will affect that signal.
Actually, it doesn't make any sense at all. The reason it doesn't is just as I got through explaining a few posts ago - the magnetic field produced by the magnet on the cable is orthogonal to the signal flow. Which in layman terms means it won't affect the signal.
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Sabai, I never said it wouldn’t change/improve the sound. You seem to be under the rather odd impression that I'm a naysayer.
😛 |
Jeffrey,
To close the loop more or less, my use of magnets, colored magnets, has nothing at all to do with RF, EMI, electromagnetic fields, with addressing magnetism is the audio system, or with the audio signal at all, actually, or with room acoustics, or even house wiring for that matter. And the products of mine that incorporate magnets, with one exception, do not address any of those issues either. I know what you’re thinking, what’s left, right? That’s what I meant when I said this talk about magnets might open up a whole can of worms. 😃
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Sabai wrote,
"Geoffkait often waffles as you correctly observed. He owns an audio company so his postings should be read advisedly. His agenda is obviously to promote sales. Otherwise, why would he mention his own products and history so frequently? Not for educational purposes. All in my opinion."
Huh? What you interpret as waffling is actually your misunderstanding of what I said or your jumping to conclusions. You have done this many times on this thread, I’m afraid. Your continued snarkiness is duly noted.
have a nice day
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sabai OP
geoffkait,
I see. Your comment that seemed very clear needed some explaining.
Sabai, actually I haven’t explained anything yet. Aren't you even curious?
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toddverrone
Geoff, I waffle between thinking you know what you're talking about and thinking you're a loony.
I bet you'd be fun to have a beer with. Non magnetic, of course
What's this, Revenge of the Nerds Pt. 2?
😀
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Breaking News! I installed 30 copper bowls, 15 were 1" and the other 15 were 1/2". They were all installed in room corners, upper and lower, in some cases more than one per corner as there are 3 surfaces per corner. Without commenting on the sonic results yet, in my portable headphone system, I'm reporting that the TV picture is quite a bit better. In fact I had to recalibrate the color saturation from 3 down to 2. Never had to do that before. Whaaaaaaat? 😀
Cheers, everybody!
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Sabai, oh, there's some confusion all right. 😃 |
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Someone mentioned magnets were being used to cut down on RFI/EMI. That’s an interesting idea in light of the fact, no pun intended, that RF is comprised of photons which as we know have no magnetic charge. Even if they did how would magnets attract all the RF in the room? Doesn’t make sense. After a while you'd have a big clump of photons sitting there in the room. As Judge Judy says, if it doesn’t make sense it not true. |
sabai OP
geoffkait,
It improves the sound by affecting the signal.
You've been hoodwinked, Sabai. When magnets are used around the room, on chassis, on walls, on wood shelves, on mirrors, on glass, they have no bearing whatsoever on the signal. Now, somebody might find some rare instance where magnet affect the signal in a positive way, but usually magnetic fields hurt the sound, which I've stated pointed out. You know, the magnetic field from transformers and the induced field from current traveling down wire. The latter is why the magnetic conduction cables sound so good, or so it would appear from all the hoopla. But not because magnets affect the signal like your thinking. In fact you yourself use magnets in the connector not on the wire. Do you think the magnets are attracting electrons or photons? give me a break! The magnetic conduction cables address the induced magnetic field in at least two ways I can see.
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I already stated the signal IS affected by magnets. Just not in a good way. Let me give you an example. If you remove the steel I.e., magnetic door from the circuit breaker box the sound will improve significantly. Putting the magnetic door back on degrades the sound. Plus the reason manufacturers went from steel chassis to aluminum chassis was primarily a sound issue. If you like the sound of magnetic chassis then steel chassis is for you.
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No, you’re the one that’s wrong at the fundamental level. Light is photons and electromagnetic waves. That’s why light travels at the speed of light. It’s also why audio signals in wire travel at near light speed - because the signal is comprised of photons. Audio signals would travel at the speed of light in a vacuum. Everything that’s in the electromagnetic spectrum is comprised of photons. Light, all radio frequencies, gamma rays, X-rays, audio signals in wire. They're all in the electromagnetic spectrum AND they're all comprised of photons. Follow?
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Good one Sabai, temperature and sound. Here's a scientific trick involving temperature and sound anyone can do at home and it's FREE. It doesn't get any cheaper than that! All you need is plain old tap water. Everyone should be familiar with the relationship of heat and sound, that sound travels faster through warm air than it does through cold air. So you can easily control how sound waves travel through the air in your room by placing bowls of very cold water out in front of the speakers in a row, let's say 3 or 4 bowls depending on how big the room is and how big the bowls are. Thus when you listen to your favorite track you'll notice it's clearer, more open and more realistic. Because the sound waves are bending downwards due to the slowing up of the waves close to the bowls of cold water more sound reaches the listener's ears. Tell your friends. |
Sabai, I really don't understand why you are being so confrontational. I have already told you I have been using magnets to improve sound for almost 20 years. We just happen to disagree on some of the details for better or worse. The reason I posted the bowls of water thing is not really out of line on this particular thread, you know, since the topic is cheap DIY tweaks. |
sabai OP
Just to remind everyone that the OP is about DIY projects you can do at home that do not cost much but that really improve audio system sound.
Thanks for the reminder. Duh!
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Sabai wrote,
geoffkait,
I do believe that you have the right to your opinions.
That's mighty decent of ya, Sabai.
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sabai OP
We may also note that anyone who disagrees with you in a direct and forthright manner is liable to be the subject of one of your confrontational and disrespectful replies such as "revenge of the nerds". Of course, this was said in jest. How foolish of me.
Whoa! Hey, lighten up, Sabai. If you go back and check what was actually posted you’re see I only responded in kind. If you go back and read what was posted on this thread you'll see I don't attack people, I attack ideas.
A sufficiently advanced technology often seems like witchcraft. - Old audiophile expression
Have a nice day
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If I may reiterate, lighten up, Sabai. It's only a hobby.
😄
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Sabai, you were the one who brought up the subject of temperature and sound with your link earlier. Maybe you didn’t read your own link, who knows? That’s why I posted on the water bowls when I did. I was only trying to help you out. Don’t be such a big baby. Save the drama for yo mama.
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Getting back on track for just a sec and I realize I mentioned this very briefly already, you know, just to see if anyone picked up on it. But I’ll mention it again. The tiny little bowls, the copper ones, are doing magical things for my headphone system. So far I’ve installed maybe 40 copper bowls of various sizes in most rooms here, including bathroom, kitchen and bedrooms. Does anyone find that a little odd? all comments welcome. |
Sabai, you got it. What more can I say? So, I assume you do find that strange, no? |
Think about it for a second. They're acoustic resonators. How can they possibly affect a headphone system?!
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It’s seems quite obvious to me. Why else would I go to the trouble of putting up 40 copper bowls since I do not have a conventional speaker system, only the headphone system? |
More tongues wagging here than at a little old ladies quilting convention.
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Geoffkait: More tongues wagging here than at a little old ladies quilting convention
sabai OP
geoffkait,
"Little old ladies quilting." I love it. Keep it coming. This makes lightening up so much easier -- and so much more fun.
Did you mean lighting up?
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Sabai, why so snarky, Honey Bear?
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That probably explains your proclivity for wagging your tongue. It must be genetic.
😛 |
Whoa! Hey! What's this, the weekly meeting of Anger Management?
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Sabai, when are you going to stop talking about me and start talking audio? Just curious. All the really insightful observation notwithstanding. 😬 And if you’re trying to convince me you’re stumbling around in the dark you’re doing an excellent job.
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So, here’s the $64K question: has anyone tried the tiny little bowls in other rooms? If so how do you place them?(obviously the ubiquitous diagram no longer applies.) |
Dream come true for the cheap DIYers among us. From what I hear through the grapevine there’s a new contact enhancer in town. The active ingredient of which is ...drum roll...Graphene! Now I have a sneaking suspicion this stuff ain’t going to be cheap so which one of you knuckleheads is going to be the first one on your block to knock off the Graphene contact enhancer?
Pop quiz: Assuming you wanted to make some how would you do it?
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Yeah! That way if you don't like it you can just erase it.
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sabai OP
geoffkait,
This is reasonable since it is your idea, after all.
What is reasonable and what is my idea? What are you referring to? Perhaps you did not understand my question, difficult to say.
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sabai OP
geoffkait,
You stated, "... which one of you knuckleheads is going to be the first one on your block to knock off the Graphene contact enhancer?"
I suggest you be the first knucklehead to try this experiment since it is your idea.
Ouch! Good one. I was actually more interested if anyone had used the tiny copper bowls in other rooms, you know, like Franck Tchang suggested.
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Sabai, you should try it. Trust me. And trust Franck Tchang.
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toddverrone
Geoff- I will say that I’d try little bowls if there was a believable explanation for how they work and what they do.. I’m not a total reductionist, so I don’t shoot things down if they aren’t ideas in the mainstream, but my mind does need something to go on, so I can figure out how to implement. Though I suppose it would be pointless since I can’t imagine decorating my house with copper bowls.. My lovely wife let’s me do what I want with the music room, but she wants input on the rest of the house.
The tiny little bowls are acoustic resonators and work much like small Helmholtz resonators by dissipating energy when placed in locations of very high sound pressure, such as on the wall at first reflection point or in a room corner. Anywhere there is a SPL peak much higher than the average SPL in the room. As I’ve mentioned on this thread at least twice the best way to determine locations in the room for the tiny little bowls is by using a SPL meter and a test tone. I find a test tone of 315 Hz to work fine but other frequencies will work too. You can also use Franck Tchang’s diagram which will be fine but not as accurate as my method.
The tiny little bowls also dissipate RFI/EMI. This is because not only is the diameter of the tiny bowl equal to an acoustic wavelength but also equal to an electromagnetic wave length, I.e., RF wavelength. Thus the tiny little bowls are two, TWO tweaks in one! That’s why I hear an improvement in the sound on my headphones - not because of the acoustic resonator function but because of the RFI/EMI dissipation function. Since there is no diagram for where the RFI/EMI peaks are in the room you have to either make a reasonable guess or obtain an EMI/RFI meter. I have so far chosen to place my tiny little bowls in upper and lower corners, one per surface, figuring that all waves behave similarly so will bunch up in room corners.
If you have a speaker system the improvement to the sound will be due to BOTH functions. The reason the sound improves when the tiny little bowls are placed in rooms beyond the listening room, kitchen bathroom, bedrooms, etc. is because RF doesn’t attenuate over distances involved in the house so that reducing RFI/EMI in other rooms reduces RFI/EMI in the listening room and in the house wiring. Whereas acoustic interference from other rooms would be very secondary. But if a room is directly adjoining the listening room then acoustic interference might be expected. I use bowls of several diameters to spread out the operating bandwidth. Better safe than sorry.
Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
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The courtyard example doesn’t contradict what I said. He also placed a bowl in the refrigerator as I recall. I never said this whole thing was not complicated. In fact what I just posted suggests quite the opposite. I never said Tchang’s diagram wouldn’t "work." I said it was a good guide, like my diagram, but you can do better. I realize you don’t wish to entertain such an idea.
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What do you mean? You're such a tease. |
