Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

This thread can keep going for a LONG time and stay relevant with all the new digital coming out.  I am vacillating on going with Aurender N100H or the N10.  Big price difference, but need to hear them side by side and no dealers I know have both set up.  Matt, can't wait for you to get the new OSDE back...

That's what I've been thinking Matt I've heard all of them and am impressed. I will wait until fall though with so many new options coming our way in regards to products and user interfaces. I like the Aurender app enough where I don't see the need for Roon. I do wonder how good their A1 will be as they know how to make a good DAC I'm sure. Doubt it will be in the same league as the OSDE though

I'm monitoring a couple of the newer DAC's that are about to come to market.  I know some folks who have heard the two I'm looking into and feel there is enough there for me to listen to them.  If I like them, I'll be selling my OSDE/SE, but it's going to really take a lot for that to happen as it's such a tremendous DAC still.  Steve just understands how to filter and clock properly and he uses the best components you can use for audio.  I've heard most of the DAC's in Matt's thread so far and only a few better Steve's and those all cost over 15k.  That's for MY ears and in MY system in MY listening room.  That takes nothing away from other DAC's as they may be more to someone else's liking in their room........you get the point. Thanks. :)

Thanks for posting Ketch.  great stuff and we will catch up later this week. I sent you a message (don't ever see PM on AG.).

Matt, really looking forward to you getting some time for YOU!  I look forward to that, more than the reviews and video's, lol.....

Michael is now using the TotalDac unless he changed again in the last few months.  Matt, Brinkmann Nyquist is in this game too.  I was really impressed when i heard it two months ago.  Just outstanding.  If you need a Dave, call me.  Personally, I got the Ayre over the Dave as it has much deeper and tuneful bass for my ears.  I think the Ayre also has a bit better pace and rhythm.  Dave has a great mid range up, but the Ayre matches it for my money.  I personally don't love Rossini.  I've now heard it in 4 different systems and like all of the DCS DAC's, it's highly detailed and a bit dry.  No warmth at all.  It's a great piece, no doubt and many will swear by it because it's so detailed, but honestly, I hear great detail in most of the top DAC's we are talking about, but the Rossini to me is like a robot,....just can't warm up to it. I have a bunch of folks I speak with regularly who feel the same way.  I had the original one in my system for a week and I realized that I barely went up to listen to it.  

Thanks for the feedback.  Is there a link to the dealer as well as the DAC?  I'm lazy i guess, lol...thanks.

Not to get off track, but do you guys still play vinyl?  I got my Rhea up and working with my Basis TT and Benz Glider cart yesterday.  Cleaned the albums nicely and got the static off.  Honestly, it's still been better than digital by a hair.  I need to get a new server, but I am running Steve's totally rebuilt one with the Paul Hynes power supply and it sounds incredible through the OSDE/SE with the upgrades.  The Vinyl just has a more relaxed presentation and a much larger and better placed sound stage.  It's hard for me to describe.  I love digital though in that I can stream Tidal (once I get a unit to set that up on as I've kept the mac mini off the grid) etc...  On Sunday's I'll probably always listen to vinyl until the wife wakes up and I"ll put on digital to play all day long.

Fully aware of vinyl and it's limitations.  some of the top phono amps take all the equalization curves into play and are adjustable.  I have a top preamp as well as a top DAC or at least very good.  I do love my digital, but Vinyl for some reason is more relaxed.  I do wish I had an equalizer for RECORDINGS, especially 70 and 80's rock.  Just a goose here or a goose there would really help greatly regardless of what the source is.  

I think you made a great post and brought out vinyl problems that most don't usually discuss.  

thanks let me see. I doubt it though

It was a great time with Mike at Suncoast.  If I lived down there, he'd be my dealer no doubt.  He just gets it.  I haven't seen the pics.  I doubt if I'm in any though, but who knows.  He put on a really nice event.  What a great store though.  Three good listening rooms of various size and shapes. Not easy to get it right, but he has some of the best sounding rooms going.  I like his mix of products also.  I'm still not a Magico fan after listening to the S3 all day.  I like the lower end dynamics of the Vandersteen for much less money as did a few others who were there.  Still, they were so much better sounding from the mid bass up than the original ones they made.  Peter McKay was very knowledgeable as always.  I met him before when he was with Krell, here in CT.  

Mike has a great diversity of products for high end. I was quite surprised at the different choices he offers for digital.  He may be an analog guy too, but that shows that you can do both if you have the coin, lol. Where are the pics located?  I'd love to see them. I met a bunch of guys from VAC as well as Suncoast Audio Society.  Was just a fun Saturday afternoon for me.  I thank Mike for having me over and sharing.  Very kind of him.

I have a great digital set up at home, but my vinyl is better in many areas as I've posted.  I know others in this thread who also love their vinyl still. When you clean your records with ultra sound and then vacuum, it usually takes out all the grunge in the grooves as well as the static.  This really isn't a vinyl vs digital, it's about the top digital for redbook.  With the new DAC's/Streamers coming out I think the landscape is changing for the better.  It's a great time to be into audio

Yes it's always is about system matching so I can understand part of your thoughts.  I do find it strange as I have heard vinyl and digital on some incredible systems that were put together with system matching as the key ingredient and vinyl has always sounded a bit more relaxed and as detailed for lack of a better word.  Digital certainly does some things much much better and vinyl does things much much better.  

I honestly believe it's all about what you are used to and how you listen. Some folks have grown up on digital and only know that as a format, while many of us cut our teeth on vinyl.  Listen, I LOVE master tape even better than both, but that's not a realistic format for me and my money, lol....

I think that digital is finally catching up to vinyl in it's overall presentation, but it's very expensive for digital to do it still. I can take a 1k TT rig and that includes a MM cartridge and is blows the doors off even the Codex, which IMHO is the best sounding (to my ears as well as many others I speak with) under 3k DAC (it's around 1500 I believe).  

I see the merit in both and have  a lot of money tied up in both, but will only buy some used records and won't spend anymore on my TT rig.  I will however be selling off my OSDE/SE soon as well as my music server that Steven sold to me in order to do some major upgrades in digital.  I'm still not 100% on selling the OSDE as it is still one of the best DACs I've heard under 13k which seems to be the new standard of entry into the top DAC's going.  I"m waiting  for the new Ayre QX-5 as I was told by a couple of folks who have extensive time with it that it's priced to be the killer DAC in the marketplace.  The chips should be in house for real production by the beginning of August I believe.  I also use headphones on weekend mornings and it has a nice amp as well as a streamer so all you need is a NAS or hard drive filled with songs to play.  It also has a Roon endpoint so I guess you can use your iPad and Roon as your app. Learning a ton and this thread is amazing.  Thanks again Matt.  Greatly appreciated.  

Matt, we really need to work out a time for me to come over for a weekend or something with my Steve Nugent built Mac Mini/Hynes supply.  I am wondering if it's starting to lose it's superiority now that newer servers are coming out.  Also you need to try and get the Music Vault in there if you can.  

Yes, I'm in the back row to the right of center with glasses and goatee.  Not my most flattering pic though, lmao....

Matt, I agree with you (as you know) about purpose built servers.  I have one that Steve sold to me with the Hynes supply and it's killer.  I've brought it to more than a couple of shops and it has been the best server they've heard, but I am not a tech guy and I'm scared to put it on the net to run it via a pad.  Maybe I will call Steve to see how to do it, but MAN is it a great sounding piece. I'd never have made one myself though I couldn't physically have done what he did and most here couldn't).

Matt, Melco will soon announce a new version of their servers.  I don't know if thats out yet, but they are ethernet and it's what Ayre uses with their DAC's.  I'm still waiting a bit to see which way I go. I also have heard the Neil's Music Vault server that he custom makes.  It rips blu rays bit perfect with built in DBripping software, can hold how many T's you need, has Room built in as well as anything else you may want and the price is fair. His balanced connections seem to be the best on his unit if your DAC has AES/EBU.  I think he told me he could do a top isolated Ethernet connection if I wanted it though.  The boards to do that are NOT cheap though, but it may be worth it.  Since I use the Ayre, it has the balanced connections I I'd probably start off with that, but we will see.  I do like the idea of an all in one, plug and play that does everything, including RAID back up and cloud back up automatically.  Richfield Hunter has one and LOVES it.  

Thanks Matt.  Switching is where most of the noise seems to come from.  The designers of the Melco gear is a great guy and I've been in good contact with him over the years. I don't own his gear...at least not yet, but I like how he thinks.  That's why I'm waiting to hear what Matt thinks of the WAversa.  We have a common friend who own's it and he swears by it.  By audiophile prices, it's not expensive, but I agree with Matt....Soon we should see higher end, all in one servers that will use audio grade everything and will be plug and play.  I will put my server set up against all the big boys and have. It's won when I've brought it to shops even.  But it's not sexy to look at and it's got a huge external LPS (possibly the best made, but it's large and ugly).  

I am still using USB, but really want to be able to take advantage of my Ayre's ethernet connections.  When done properly, I've never heard USB sound as good.  Just haven't. 

I have heard Trinity a few times and LOVED it.  Just a great musical piece.  Played through large Rockports and Naim amps.  Not a big Naim fan and the Rockports were fairly new to me.  It was the first dAC that wasn't 'digital sounding to me. I liked it MUCH better than the dryer and hyper detailed DCS full stack.  

Matt, honestly, you would still like the DaVinci in your system.  The Boulder gear is outstanding. That said it is a bit bright.  Not fatiguingly so, but musically so.  You know that I like it, but can't warm up to it. I'd never own it personally, but many of you guys love that flavor and that's why these shootouts are fun.  

What I've found out is that digital is the most system dependent gear in our systems.  I've heard the same DAC in different systems have the same signature, but not sound the same if that makes sense.  You could take your system Matt and put it in the identical room with a different electric feed and it would sound incrementally different.  Just change the feet...OH, you did.  Just change the power cord.....OH, you have....

We've spoken at length about this off the board, but I wanted to post it here as it ties into your post and update.  

Matt, I was so happy the other night when you shared your LH thoughts.  Very very cool.  I NEED to get over to hear that DAC.  Of all the expensive ones, I haven't heard the LH and need to.

Marc, I totally agree with you. So often people scoff at budget gear, but there's a market for them, because you can hear a nice difference. Honestly, I have an old Krell Stealth Dac that I'm putting into my system tomorrow.  It doesn't have USB, but it had balanced, two coax and a couple or so optical.  I've had it in the system before and it's really nice for an older piece. I'm about to place it up for sale as some folks just love Krell pieces, but I've heard a ton of DAC's from 1500 down that are really nice sounding.  Incremental upgrades are what audio is all about.  Then you have to figure out where you have to jump off the train.  

The Mini that I have was totally rebuilt by Steve himself as it was his old server he used at shows.  I has it's limit, but with the Hynes regulated power supply and all the mods he did, it's not like any mini I've ever heard.  I'm about to purchase the Melco to use only as a NAS eventually.  As I think I've posted, this is the unit that the Ayre folks use with their QX-5/Twenty.  Even if I don't get the new Ayre, the Melco will be a great NAS and can be used as the streamer/server also.  With the new update to the Melco, you can easily rip to it also and I know they are even working on an optical drive of their own that will just rip quickly and easily with dbpoweramp.  

What are you talking about Erik?  What point?  Proves nothing other than I am upgrading again as I have been planing for ages.  The digital system I have/selling is awesome and worthy to be in the highest of systems.  I already miss the darn thing.  The DCS, Trinity and Berk Ref are the only other DAC's I've personally heard enough of to like better than the OSDE/SE.  As for the Mac Mini, it sounds nothing like other servers I've heard.  I do feel some of them are better, but they are also in another price range totally. I'm not sure the N10H sound better.  Different, but not sure it's better.  That's nearly 3k for the server.  I do know the ones lower I don't like.  I hope that servers that are new and much more costly sound better.  If not, there's a problem.  If you want to try and read into my mind and come up with something that isn't true to let you prove a point, go ahead.  Very strange response, but I'm not here to fight.  I'm sure that you are correct in all your assumptions Erik. Still don't understand the second part of your post and I had someone contact me off board to ask what you meant in your post.  Congrats on waiting to get something for nothing.  I'm glad you love your system.  That's what audio is all about. :)

Erik you read something into my comments that I never said. I was planning to get this Ayre with a Melco when I purchased thEmpirical as I've know. All about it for a bit. What Steve did to my mini server has it sounding outstanding. I'd have kept them both and been very happy. If sharing that I never said what you said I did is attitude so be it I guess. L was laughing the whole time typing Erik. Upgrading doesn't mean that you need better sound it can also mean you love what you have but can afford what you ultimately want. How many in this thread love to upgrade when they can afford it?  

I just shared that you were totally incorrect trying to reason why I'm making moves. I know a few others reading this thread who are laughing too. Not taking it as seriously as you may believe. 

Was told that it was a very good show this year.  No really specifics though. I have a call into a dealer who was there and will share what he would like to share.  

Was told that it was a very good show this year.  No really specifics though. I have a call into a dealer who was there and will share what he would like to share.  

Ketch, I wasn't able to send a PM.  Didn't see how. Matt is sending my phone and email. Thanks. Looking forward.

I've heard the DCS stacks a few times in various systems.  They were very very good. I liked the Trinity a lot when I've heard it.  Better than the Berk Ref for me by a fair amount, but the system I heard it in was exceptional and set up properly in a great room.  Heard DAVE in the city and it was good, but I hated the speakers (over 100k I think) and that ruined it, but I could tell the DAC was very good and a top contender.  Can't wait for the AyreQX5/twenty, but that's still only their mid level so I'll take that into consideration.  I'm expecting a lot, but I can't see it in the same ball park as the OSDX.  I should have just kept the OSDE and begged Steve to do the upgrade for me, lol.  Didnt' think he would.  Live and learn.

All systems are synergistic.  That's the problem in audio IMHO....too many buy based threads like this or other ones I read and participate in.  They need to put a system together as just that...a system.  Well engineered and built products should all sound very good together, but this is also electronics and they don't always play well in the sandbox together.  I keep thinking I have a good system and then I upgrade and wow.....  The Quatro's were installed and set up yesterday and holy cow.  Now I can really hear what the rest of the system is capable of. I got the lower priced Treo's knowing I would upgrade within a few years, so I made sure I got components that sounded great with either speaker.  Now I don't have to worry about amps, cables or DAC.....  The synergy is there.  Have a friend who reads this thread too I believe and he did the same thing with B&W's.  I have not like many of the DAC's spoken about, but I know I'm the outcast.  I like a different sound possibly.  I listen to a ton of live music as I like to get out as much as possible.  I know many on this board also do as we discuss it all the time.  

Dragon has added even more life into a great thread.  Thanks man.

Matt, thanks for sharing.  Yes you understand what I was saying.

"All systems are synergistic."  Sorry that I didn't post the way you could understand.  I actually was called by another poster who did understand what I was saying.  I can see where it could possibly mean what you thought it meant, but I've been around long enough to know that system matching is always critical.  That's pretty basic stuff, but thanks for your examples.

Matt, I'm excited to see how you feel about some of these others DAC's now that you will have what you feel is a great reference.  I'm looking forward to coming down to listen once it's broken in.  Will be a fun time.

Thanks Matthew.  I had an NDS I believe it was, but it wasn't for me.  I didn't like the lack of usb or ethernet inputs and the outputs weren't balanced (need balanced with Ayre gear).  Just want's the right match for my system. I've heard it in a few stores and it sounded pretty good.  A bit too much on the top end for my tastes, but that's a popular sound, especially in Europe.  It's a great build and looks nice too.  

Wow, what a treat.  Finally got to Matt's house (thanks Sam for driving)!  Wonderful room adn system guys.  It was a true treat for a guy like me to enjoy 'guy' time with two close friends and also listen to a serious system.  Got to enjoy time with the Lampy and then his Light Harmonic.  Changing to that Crystal interconnect put the soundstage in better position and just allowed the music to flow much freer.  We talk about cables and who difference they make.  For those doubters you need to go to Matt's house to listen.  

If you don't think even a basic interconnect will make a difference, then I can't take your thoughts seriously anymore, lol.  It was a true component upgrade.  It gave it a soundstage that the other didn't really have.  I get that when I went up in the Audioquest line and have heard similar with other cables.  Not all cables in someone's line will be great and price isn't always the factor.  Silver is HARD to work with (Steve will attest to that I'm sure) and most don't do it correctly.  When it's done right it's a holy cow moment for teh whole system.  

I thought the Lampy was nice sounding.  Not my cuppa, but tube guys seem to have a blast with it and it's a pretty box to boot.  Matt's Davinci took the system to level's above to my ears.  That takes nothing way from the Lampy. I don't know which one it was, nor the cost, but the Davinci lists for much more I'd think.  

My biggest take away is that I can't wait to get my www.thememoryplayer.com. I heard it in two systems yesterday and the last one was with Rockport Lyra's, the large Solution amps and the Behold preamp.  It has the Telos grounding system throughout and the Enklein power cables into the Absolair (Turkey) distributed power boxes. Heck, the master tapes playing on the modded and rebuilt Apex tape deck was SICK.  Also I enjoyed that Kronos TT set up.  

What a great day that turned out to be and the brotherhood of Matt and Sam was the main part of the day.  It was the Federation of the Jewish Audiophile Brotherhood! ;). 

Guys, I messed up. Saw a lot and wiht the MS, I can forget some details for sure.  It was the Elrod top power cords.  Look like a python swallowing a small animal, lol.

Thanks so much for the post and the help.  I sold my OSDE knowing the QX-5/Twenty is out as well as Steve's new DAC.  I may be able to afford his new DAC if something comes through this next week or so, and that's now on the table.  I'll be getting the Melco to use as a NAS for the Ayre or if I get the OSDX it will also become the server.  If I don't do the Melco, I'll be getting the new QNAP 471 NAS as it's powerful enough to install an SSD in one slot and run Roon which I want.  Either of these set ups allow me to run an all Ethernet connection, but I realized that my house was never wired for Ethernet.  

Ketch, I guess I have two questions:
1. can I guy the Apple Time Machine as my router connected to the Comcast modem and then use the Apple Extreme I think they call it, to use Ethernet connections for all of this?

2. You mention the type of Ethernet connection.  You said:  The Ethernet has galvanic isolation. I will test to see if Giso (galvanic isolator) or Waversa Smarthub (LiPo Powered, ethernet re-clocker/filter audiophile switch) have any sonic improvement and report back.

Are these built into Steve's unit or are these something my Ethernet cords will be connected to and then that connects to the DAC?  

Thanks.  Learning so much about digital lately that it's scary, lol. 

Still the best thread on the net for digital audio!!

Thanks for sharing Matt.  I knew how busy you have been and feel badly but you are doing special work for others and that's commendable in a BIG WAY.

I too in recent days have been talked into Ethernet with Roon and possibly HQPlayer.  Not to hijack, but would love to know others thought of HQPlayer also as it's ultimate digital.  

Matt, I have decided (well 90%) to set up a QNAP 471 NAS.  It has the set up on the QNAP site.  The first slot as I said above if for the SSD that runs Roon.  Bay 2 and 3 are for the 6TB storage run in Raid 1. The 4th bay is to be set up to automatically do a weekly back up of the 6TB WD green or red hard drives.  That will all be set up in the room that has the router and then I'll figure out how to install a run directly to the stereo system or I'll do the wireless set up with the Apply extreme deal like I've seen in so many high end audio stores. If someone else has a better idea many of us are more than willing to listen.  Thanks. 

I liked the Trinity when I heard it, but honestly, it didn't blow me away as some of the higher price DAC's have.  JMHO, but I have a friend who had one last year and sold it.  Not even sure what he's running now, but it may the the full DCS stack as he was going on and on about how much he liked it.  

Ketch, thanks so much for those links. Time for me to start learnin bout new wave digital again....thought I had been doing this over the last two years, but I guess not enough, lol.  

Ketch, that thread is a bear for a novice like me.  I don't fully understand what an optical network is and why I need it.  I don't have any ethernet cable runs in the townhouse. My main system is on the second floor and my bedroom system is on the first floor.  I have a full basement where I'm wanting Comcast (when I get it installed next month or so) to bring everything into the basement as the coax runs are all set up there going to each room in the house. I will most probable have the Comcast modem and router (most likely Apple Time Machine) running in one of the upstairs bedrooms as that will be my hub as the noise won't affect my listening room.  I was hoping to just install the new QNAP 471 NAS with the router and use the Airport Extreme from both systems to the NAS that would host Roon and hopefully HQPlayer.  

I was told that Roon will help the sound quality vs using a local drive (i.e. Aurender or Melco) directly to the DAC and not worrying about my second system as it already streams Tidal so I don't care if it's on a network or not.  I can afford the N100H and possibly even a used N10 Aurender.  The problem is that it won't be Roon and if it's the N100h, I believe it would have to the a usb connection.

If I only care about sq first and I only really need to have my main system being fed, what are your personal thoughts as to which products I should be looking at and how should I set them up?  

Right now I'm seem to have a Melco N1A running as a NAS only (Roon is working hard on trying to get their core to run on the Melco's OS) and then a NUC for Roon and HQPlayer, or an Aureneder directly into the DAC or getting the Qnap and setting it up the way they say to run Roon off of it.  

Anything I've missed so far?  Any thoughts are appreciated.  Matt, what set up are you looking at doing?

Agree with you Matt.  I LOVE my Ayre QX5/20.  It really is a great DAC, but I'm under no illusions that it's better than the TotalDac and many of the other 18k plus DAC's. It does, for my ears beat a couple of the 18k plus DAC's though, but I'll keep that off line in convo's with you, LOL.....Matt, you have found your nirvana DAC.  That said, it's a great thread and you are still bringing in a lot of the 8-18k DAC's.  You should add the Ayre as well as the Brinkmann DAC's.  I heard the Brinkmann and I don't remember if I told you about it, but it's a really nice unit.  Like the Ayre, very very musical and plenty of the micro and macro detail that both companies are known for.  I think both hit well above their price ranges. Totally different design as the Ayre is still a whole digital front end (pray folks never use a DAC as a pre amp though) and the Brinkmann is just a great DAC so you'd still need a streamer for you Tidal or Pandora etc...  I'd love to see how close to the TotalDAC it could be.  Or even the ODSX (wish that was a remote as I would have done the upgrade when Steve had it in to work on), but I needed remote with my MS and having a family who uses the system. 

Actually mtruong, it's ODSX.  That's the name of Steve's newest DAC.  Yes, I transposed two of the letters.  sorry about that.

Thanks Matt.  As you know I totally agree with what you heard.  What surprised me is that tubes are inherently faster than solid state devices.  I was pretty surprised that it didn't sound faster, but like a nice Harbeth, it was really musical.

Jeff, good to see you post again, lol.  I'm glad you got the DaVinci and N10.  I'll see you guys at Audio Connection on Saturday when Richard Vandersteen visits.  Will be fun.  

Al, looking forward. Yes it was a great talk. Too bad the club can’t come to Johnny’s. That would have been great. We will need to set something like that up. Would be fun. I’d like more info on the club too.  Pete. 

That would be me Al, lol.  I've never been to any clubs or even a show in my life, lol.  Now I'm asking for club info and will be going to Cam Jam in NYC in Feb if the MS let's me, lol.....  What has life turned into?  

Al, can't wait to get the server in and have you over.  A dealer friend of mine in Houston, Timbr Audio, just taped a world class pianist in his store (they have a special room for this) and is sending me the whole session on a thumb drive.  I am hoping that becomes a bit of a reference for me, lol.  He's worked with Chesky and others in the past, so I'm sure it's recorded as good as it can be.  Yes, Matt, you will get a copy as will Richfield, lol..

How many of you use piano to when critically listening?  I know that's one instrument I was told to use back in teh early 70's.  It's a big reason I don't like so many speakers as that and cymbals can be brutal to properly reproduce IMHO.  

Not even close to the same ball park of the DAC's being discussed in this thread Randy. It's a nice DAC for the price and should be put up against the Ayre Codex and some others in that range, but it's just not what this thread is about.  Takes nothing away from a nice DAC for it's price range though.

Guys, I"ve had the Yggy in my system on two occasions.  One for was about 5 days.  I had a Codex in the house and did my own listening.  I then invited a few friends over to hear both units.  The Codex won every time.  The people listening weren't really audiophiles, just music lovers an one was a pro musician.  They never asked which piece was which, ,but it also wasn't a scientific test.  

The Codex threw a wider stage, went deeper in the bass and has much more detail.  The pace and rhythm was there in spades.  There was a male vocal (forget who) that had a reverberation in that lower mid that sounded right on the Codex.  The Yiggy was close, but it didn't give the same emotion that the Codex did.

I can see why Schitt has a following. Great products for reasonable cost.  I spoke to two owners of the units who post on Computer Audiophile I believe it is and they both had posts about the Yiggy besting the Codex etc...  I PM"d them and spoke to both.  Neither had ever heard the Codex let alone had one in their system.  I found that strange.  When I talk about a product it may have been hearing it once in a shop or someone else's system and me not liking what I hear right up front.  Could be many reasons, but I'm not the type to get excited about the TV on the floor at Best Buy that's the brightest of the bunch and stands out because of it.  

If you feel the Yiggy is better than the top DAC's Matt has had in his system, then that's awesome.  My post wasn't meant as a mean spirited comment to you, but I did dismiss it based on my own listening (The Codex isn't in the same league as the QX5/20 so I made an assumption that the Yiggy can't hold a candle to the QX5/20).  The QX5/20 isn't quite as good as some of the DAC's in the 18 and above, but better than a few I"ve heard.

If you want to get Matt  Yiggy to go up against the others, I'm sure he'll plug it into his system for a day.  If we can set that up for the day I get to visit with my Ayre piece then that would be great too.  Maybe I'll hear differently in Matt's room (can't wait to get there Matt).

I"ll get the Ayre, but there is a short list of DAC's I'm going to want to try and listen to before I decide to keep it.  Most will have to be used for me to afford, but with the every evolving world of digital, that shouldn't be a problem.  Bricasti's, the new ODSX, EMM, Ayre's 5 series and a few others that are also from small companies like Steve's.  There really are so many great options right now.  Dealers can no longer afford to just carry a DAC line because they have the amp line. I really feel that they will need to carry three high end DAC's and a few more of the mid priced ones.  That's not to say that analog is dead or anything like that.  I still love putting on a record, but my money goes into digital right now and used records that I can usually get for under $2.

Yup, but again, this thread is about the best DAC's and the Codex and Yiggy aren't in that discussion as Matt's thrown out before.  last note and I'll join a new thread if you start it, those DAC's sound pretty different to most folks who have heard both. I'm surprised that you didn't hear a difference the second time.  

For anyone who reads my thoughts on sound, I like a coherent sound (this is why I love and own Vandersteen's (now the Quatro's) that has no smearing and is full range.  I must have a realistic sound stage and imaging.  Tonality, time and pace of the music are also paramount.  For some reason, I can't listen to a system that is too hot on top.  That doesn't mean not extended, it means not distorted.  

Yes, Vandersteen's to me are the best speaker I've heard, but IRT electronics, as much as I love Ayre and own Ayre, I also like a lot of other gear.  I have recently owned Steven Nuggent's DAC and found it to be outstanding.  As dynamic as you could get at the time and very extended.  Never etched though.  It wasn't nearly as liquid in the mids though and I like the Ayre much better because of it.  

Hopefully that explains my posts and why I don't like many of the very expensive DAC;s on the market (I do love plenty of them though, lol).

Matt and I speak on a fairly regular basis and yes I'm planing on getting down there in the near future.  We like a lot of the same sound, but like all of us, hear a bit differently.  It will be interesting to hear what he finally has put in place.  

I know that a few companies will be coming back to the US market within the next year and they will bring very high end DAC's in and I can't wait to hear them also.  This thread should be going for a long long time, lol. 

jwm, what your post for me?  If so, I buy at dealers nearly all the time.  Every now and then I will purchase used when I know who has the products I want and can't afford otherwise.  I fully support local dealers.  I do agree that the used market has really hurt the dealer networks.

What?

Intersting.  As much as the Dave isn't my taste, I have never found it harsh. If anything, it's the polar opposite to me as well as anyone else I've ever spoken with who has heard one.  Very interesting.  As much as you love your Yggy, it's honestly not in the same league as these other DACs that Matt and others are discussing.  Feel free to bring it over to my house and we can spend the day listening to the QX5/20 and the Yggy.  

The review on Audio Stream today is a must read folks.  All about some of the posters here using optical runs, converters etc....  Had a great convo with Steve tonight and can't wait for some of you guys to start getting thoughts to keyboard on the ODSX run in ethernet mode.  Matt must be drooling about now waiting for his, lol....

and Vandersteen may be coming out soon with a SS amp.  Lot's of great new gear coming soon.  BTW, I may be selling my Ayre QX5/20 DAC (all inputs and fully updated as I may be moving up a bit.  I should know soonish, but will PM with folks who have interest. Thanks