T&F certainly has made even more pro measuremnts and put in on their website. I am sure all these speakers roll in the 20s but the SPL trails off dramatically, and hence the -6db at 40hz!
I have heard the RA, Pkharoah and Isis at shows and can tell you the bass otput of the Ra is really full range and clobbers the others.
Got my email yet? |
OK Matt,
I am just putting them out there for you. It seems the Rowen speakers would work well for you, but unfortunately they ONLY sell in Switzerland. They are built to be placed anywhere in real homes and bass response is tamed as the Swiss mostly build with concrete and the owner HATES bass reflex design.
If I think of other suggestions, i will let you know.
Gear, i sent a HUGE file with like 6 pictures...Mmmh, i will check and try again. i found 3 with the ISIS room. i will also see if 6Moons took any... |
Matt, 2 more names for you...
Backes & Muller (german)
and Ypsilon Phaeton (greek and superb sounding).
Ypsilon here: http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/highendsuisse2014/1.html
and the money shot on the ISIS room in Zurich here:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/highendsuisse2014/2.html
Unkind writeup from Srajan here (about the looks):
Playing to the dichotomy of fugly but great sound, Audio Sphere's Enzo Nolli, Swiss importer for Jeff Rowland, had set up a vinyl-fronted rig ending in Trenner & Friedl's Isis. Except for lacking handles and hinges to open in the front, those struck Ivette and I as two fat refrigerators which the Austrian makers clearly expect will set up shop in domestic living rooms. Oy. Whilst dimensioned according to golden ratio proportions from multiplex Birch Ply, these 120 x 50 x 35cm 3-way sarcophagi with horn-loaded compression tweeter would never be allowed in our digs. Which actually is too bad. This room made our second-favorite sound. To produce this type of sock'em slam and density absolutely requires a big woofer. At 15 inches per side, the Isis complied. "Raise the Pharaoh" in a nod to The Mummy would be a suitable alternate to the old "Rock the Casbah" motto. |
Rowen speakers here...interesting read if nothing else. Bipolar radiators.
The s10 and all the "A" range up to the topline a20 have the 5 octave LMT driver (unique tech):
http://rowen.ch/en/data/rowen_a20.php
ROWEN Symphony loudspeakers
http://rowen.ch/en/ls_symphony.php
The optimal integration of a loudspeaker into the living room landscape not only requests particularly high demands at its aesthetics, it raises fundamental audio spatial problems with room acoustic issue, which we cope through the full Bipolar technology. With the ROWEN Symphony line we succeeded in getting substantially closer to a concert-like rendition of music under living room conditions. With this circularly radiating sound columns ambiance and performance stage appear so authentically that the atmosphere of the concert hall becomes experience in your living room.
Boxes simply equipped with loudspeakers at the front only partly consider the acoustic conditions in the living room. They act only within the basic tone range as circular emitters. Reflections at walls, ceilings or floors cause overvaluation of the basic tone portions in terms of energy. The frequency linearity for direct sound and ambient three-dimensional sound are therefore not congruent. This problem is taken in account with our Symphony line with the so-called full Bipolar principle. The entire Frequency spectrum is rendered evenly to front and back, giving these loudspeakers circular radiation characteristics.
We are convinced that additional effort of the doubled equipment with high and mid tone is inevitable, if highest standards are to be met at the rendition of sound. With the full Bipolar the frequency linearity of the Direct sound and the ambient three-dimensional sound is almost congruent. This results in open and clearly transparent sound characteristics with fine, natural brilliance and warmth of music rendition. The models of the Symphony Series play each kind of music with large implicitness. Listening to music at home gets a new dimension – the one of a concert hall.
With the Symphony loudspeakers (excepting S2) the belated extension to the ROWEN Bi-Active-technology is possible. The increase of dynamics and detail fidelity delivers musicality and the character of a live performance even more clearly. With an increasing listening experience and the requirements grown accordingly you can let the ROWEN Loudspeakers gradually grow along.
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Gear, size wise was about the same as the Zurich room. See my link to 6moons.
Better room treatment in Newport though, with curtains, etc. Zurich was more exposed wall, etc. |
In the 6moons shot you see a chair. There is the first row of 3 plus some walking space behind, so the room is quite deep. Bear that in mind, as it was not a small room, more medium sized.
I will see if I can find a shot of the Warsaw room, where there was no overload.
Sarcophogal looks, so does not solve YOUR WAF problem GearD. Matt wants bass banging potential and these can deliver and perhaps too much!
I am starting to think that the Rowen A20/A12 or S10 would likely be perfect for him. The 5 octave LMT has Heil like speed and finesse and the dispersion pattern of the bipolar config would make placement easy. NO Bass reflex allowed! Unfortunately, not sold outside CH unless he could convince them to do a direct sale, but of course no support locally. Prices at dynavox.ch
Rowen amps are sweet. The top power amps will deliver 4K wpc into 0.5 ohms and they use negative output impedance to compensate for line loss and X-over loss. Unbreakable.
Fun thread Matt, let's have some of your well reasoned out comments. I am having fun throwing things at you and seeing of anything will stick. LoL |
From the reports I have read, the Lampi Level & is off the chain.
Those DHT tubes seem to take things to another level, especially DSD. I am dying to hear one. I only have a L4, but with the latest tweaks. My buddy in NYC should get one in the next 2 weeks. |
Typo above, LampizatOr Level 7... |
If you like Tube Dacs, check out the DHT tube Lampi L7:
This Dac is a serious piece of musical equipment.
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/05/09/axpona-2014-vapor-audio-purity-audio-and-lampizator/comment-page-1/#comment-19338 |
Anyone here tried the Lampi tubed SBox transport with a Big 6? I have heard good things about this combo, especially going Ethernet vs Wireless.
Lampis also undergo continuous tweaking, so I suspect the current Big7 may be even better that older demo L7s.
The French TotalDac uses tubes and gets good feedback. I heard one once, but didnt blow me away vs my L4, though it was good. What really impresses me is DSD128 on the Lampi DSD Dac! Pity I only have the equivalent of 13 DSD2x albums. |
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The Lampi L7 is the first tube Dac on the market using DHT tubes (since Nov 2013). It is flattering to them that Allnic is comign out with a DHT Dac now. |
Glory's L5, which he replaced with the Phasure? That was a Gen 3 L5 with Ming DSD, not the new Chipless DSD from Lukasz. Not even close to being equivalent to a Gen 4 L5 with Lukasz DSD.
Strange that HiFiAL says that the Meitner beat the Lampi DSD-Dac, when Bruce Brown said it beat his reference MPD5 (Playback Designs). I also concur after listing to both extensively.
Different stokes for different folks. Personal taste is what really matters. |
One box = BIG.
Two box is the classic level X. |
GrannyR,
Except for L7, the Lamp Dacs run the tubes at only 20-25% of rated capacity, so they should last 10+ years. Tube aging is NOT an issue. Indeed at about 20w output, you can leave them on indefinitely without a big energy bill and they will always be "ready". I often do that, except when away on a trip or something, so really no different from SS. In my L4, I have found great Tungrsam NOS tubes for as little as $10 locally and $25 on Ebay with shipping included.
Lukasz told me he made arrangements in case of his untimely demise to immediately release all his schematics publicly online, as he would never leave his loyal customers in a lurch.
In terms of the global economy, small boutique places will likely survive BETTER than larger entities with BIG fixed overheads, etc.
Interms of Transport, that is a different discussuion. DallasJustice had the Empirical Dac with all the trimmings and abandoned it for a TotalDac with Legato 16/44 transport and I think moved on to TotalDac Server and USB converter. I have heard the TotalDac and its very good, but didnt induce me to want to change from lamp.
Many claim the Lampi SB Transport is the best they have for RBCD, especially when fed by Ethernet. I cant say as I never had this experience. I can saw that Lampi DSD is sublime and if any solution is not doing DSD well, I am not interested. |
And GrannyR, its not a knock against Steve Nugent, who makes excellent products. However, personal taste varies a lot and I can see why people can choose one thing over another. One caution I will repeat from AGear is that some equipment you only miss when its gone… I have seen my share of regret sales.
The one thing I dont get from Matt is why would he choose the L6 in this comparison when he has a strong bias to US made equipment (nothing wrong with that). The Polish origins of the Lampizator was known upfront. |
Relax Matt,
I am enjoying your thread and all the posts. People will have different opinions and that is a GOOD thing. Keep on trucking. |
Oh and except for DHTs, (no info on those yet), Dac tubes are run at 20% so they last for like 10 years no problem and consume like 20w, so you can keep them on for long stretches. Turning them on and off often is what shortens their lives. This is very different from tubes in amplifiers, so care and maintenance is minimal and about on par with SS Dacs. In other words NOT and issue. |
Is this the long overdue upgrade to DSD128? That should have happened more than a year ago. What is the hold up? Or did it happen alredy and I am unaware? |
Cstooner, it seems you need to hear the Lampi L7 (using 45 DHT power amp tubes). Feedback so far is that its a barn burner. Check out the thread at CA.
It doesn't even need more than 40 hours/3 days of burn in to announce its intention to the world. The apparently impossible, realized? |
If cost was no object, I would be getting a Lampy Big7 with no USB converter as, I hear the straight USB implementation is that good.
The DHT tube design is da bomb and this is coming from my pal who owns a Hugo, Direct Stream, MSB Platinum stack with Galaxy 2 clock upgrade, a Mytek and a GD Master 7. Sez its the best PCM he ever heard and he is DSD freak.
I'm just saying. |
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ODSE is the Emprical Audio OverDrive DAC SE version, by Steve Nugent....make of the OffRanmp converter (fo example). |
JFox,
Paul Hynes (very, very nice bloke) makes many custom LPSU with multiple rails. indeed, he does have order cancellations from time to time and offer such units for sale with immediate delivery. I just got my SR3 a few months back and have not listened to it yet.
That remainds me, I must give Paul a call to say hello and have a small chat. |
I suspect that all the quality tube Dacs/CDPs sound excellent.
I myself am desperate to hear the DHT based Lampi Big7. From what I am getting as feedback, this is the new DAC standard. The lucky 20 people who own one need to stop keeping this secret to themselves.
Hopefully, I get to hear one next week in NYC. |
Yes, I saw the Bebop post about selling and now he is having 2nd thoughts...
He thought the Vol control could replace his CF pre and since its not better, he was thinking of all CF gear...but CF does not do DSD and B7 DSD is da bomb.... |
JoeCasey,
"losing a shootout??" Hahahah. Too funny. That is the thinking of gear of the month and it has happened to Aesthetix as well.
Big7 is NOT the same Dac as Big6. Big7 is the ONLY true DHT Dac on the market. To write it off without a listen is very foolish in my opinion...especially if you want to hear Hirez and DSD in all their glory. CDPs cant handle that.
Just to let you know, this is what 2 owners posted recenly posted:
"Yeah.. Agree with Al and Philip. I have not for a second considered giving up mine - there are so many things this DAC does amazingly right that I'd never do that! Lukasz and Fred have been exceedingly helpful the whole way. Contact them and see what they can do. The Big 7 is an insane value in the rarefied world of audio, IMHO."
"Why is up for sale? If its because of not wanting to use a preamp I think that is insane . No DAC should drive an amp straight, it's just not what the intention is. If you can make it work all the better but for me I like a dedicated pre amp. As for the sound of the B7, I feel it's above my MSB stack in both pcm and dsd . It has qualities of the MSB but surpasses it in overall sound, being you are there and analog sound. As much as love the MSB its clear to me it is beat. In fact the B7 is better than any DAC I have heard to date.
Not saying I have them all but enough to know its tops for me to stop looking. Now if lampi comes out with B7 plus well then I am in. But why is the DAC up for. Sale anyway. ??? As for service there is no other DAC maker who caters to users as lukasz does . To make custom changes for people is way beyond anyone I know of.
Al" |
Many of those Big5 and Big6 for sale are just owners trading UP. There is now a backlog and commensurate waiting time for Big7s.
People say the DHT 45 output tubes lend unprecedented ease to the music. Like a Lamborghini cruising around in South Miami Beach....completely unstressed. |
NSA= national sales academy??? haha.
Talk to Berto and Gopher and they will let you know what the deal is. No need for high tech surveillance, they will tell you...Seven is the new 6. LoL
The Seven says "bring it on". |
I know how its made and I have many pals who heard one and heard several other Dacs including other Lampis. I also recently heard an anniversary Shandling and a tubed Oppo running through a Big 6.
Big7 and Big6 are completely different animals.
If you are happy with your CDP, more power to you. People like different things and some people are just gear swappers, as that is their thing. |
TBG, go read the DSD Dac review that Bruce Brown did for Stereomojo. He compared directly to the venerable PBD MPS5
I dont see a Sabre chip beating LPF DSD well implemented. THAT is pure bitstream DSD.
Vapor generally shows with Empirical and sometimes with Lampi. |
Matt,
Enjoy your vacation.
Just to let you know that yesterday I heard the Big7 along with a Chord Hugo, DirectStream and MSB Platinum stach with Galaxy 2 cock upgrade and all I can say is Holeeeee Crap!
If curiousity kills the cat, lets sayou will need the 9 lives of a cat to stand a chance at survival. That beast is one smooth operator. the box is also the same size as the big6, but the 2 big EML 45 triodes to stick out a lot and look very cool.
As a DSD lover, i was shocked how close the PCM was to DSD on the Big7.
The Lampi-man deserves to take bow for his masterpiece. Loved the MSB stack too, but it was a tad bit starker/harder, though a tad bit more detalied too. Also cost about 3.5x as much too. |
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I was told the PureDac was updated to play back DSD128..
Many DSD Dacs out ther can handle DSD128...the only prominents one that cant off the top of my head are the Benchmark 2 and the Meitner MA-1. |
Yup, just confirmed it does do DSD128
http://bmc-audio.de/index.php/PureDAC-EN.html
Features:
Top-grade Digital/Analog Converter with Current Injection current-to-voltage (I/V) conversion
High-resolution asynchronous USB interface up to 32bit/384kHz
USB PCM: 16...32bit; 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, 352.8, 384kHz.
USB DSD: DSD64, DSD128.
ASIO driver for Windows; Linux and Mac compatible
AES/EBU, coaxial and Toslink digital inputs
Balanced, reference-class headphone amplifier with digital/analog power convertion (DAPC), load-effect free (LEF) technology, a lateral MOSFET, a super-low impedance LEF output stage, and lossless Digital Intelligent Gain Management (DIGM) volume control
Balanced LEF, CI-compatible preamp that optionally operates in B.M.C. Mode, with DIGM and a vertically diffused metal oxide semiconductor (DMOS) and LEF-balanced output stage.
Separate volume controls for the line and headphone sections (the line volume position 59 represents a DAC standard output level)
Second-generation DIGM with optimized gain distribution between power amps and internal and DIGM volume levels
Optical B.M.C. Link for connecting with B.M.C. amps like the PureAmp
Remote Control
Top grade parts like MPP (conductive film polypropylene, non inductive) and balanced current capacitors, precision metal film resistors...
Massive and stylish extruded aluminum chassis
Dimensions: 14.37 x 4.06 x 12.91 inches, W/H/D (365 x 103 x 328 mm)
Weight: 11.9 lbs (5.4 kg)
Related Catalogues:
B.M.C. Audio Complete Catalogue, English (300dpi photos): Download |
Big7 is more like $11K retail, not $22K.
My L4 is still burning in after 20Khours…LoL, that is it keeps getting better with age.
Seriously, Lampis sound great after just 3 days burn in and keep getting better long after that.
I have heard the Big7 3 weeks ago in NYC and am officially jealous. AGear you da man. |
Granny, this is not your Daddy's Lampi!!!
Lukasz took it to another level. i am not joking when I say I am jealous.
Find a way to audition one, even for the fun of it. You will be amused. |
Dang, I HEARD about that stock Pioneer DVD player...da bomb! LoL |
Full Spatial setup with Emerald Physics type gear is a game ender!!! No Doubt quality DSP is da bomb.
However, its boring as there is nothing left to tinker with. LoL |
There is only one MTL show, as far as I am aware...I think its in March. MTL is a great city and so any show visit there is like a holiday. |
Hey Grannyring, was it really your wife? If so, kudos to her.
It was a very enjoyable blog! |
"09-09-14: Grannyring
Yes, my wonderful wife. Remember the events are greatly exaggerated :)
Grannyring"
Yes of course, but her literary style is very developed. We have some friends who just moved back to the States and the wife sort of reminds me of my mental imade of the Audiophile's Wife, though the husband has a modest system and is not a crazy audiophile.
My own wife is far and away satisfied with a boombox listening to MP3 and rolls her eyes at audio-tomfoolery. LoL |
You guys actually didnt know about the Trinity Dac? Where have you been hibernating? LoL |
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Alex, I totally agree about the DSD, especially as I have Tbs worth and listen with this:
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/07/04/lampizator-dsd-dac/ |
I think TBG heard the L5 NOT the L7. |
I have a buddy in London with an L5 that is trading up to a Big7 very soon. He has a BMC PureDac as his backup Dac (my recommedation to him as an inexpensive backup for when he sent his L5 back for modding caps) and he says "it sounds good, but it aint no Lampi).
I spoent 6 hours at AL place this July listing to his 4 Dacs, one of which was a Big7. It sounded so stunningly real to me that I am going to trade up to.
To each his own ears
Jafox, I am on the hunt for Vintage tubes to roll in The B7. I will get Psavane 101ds, but will try Cunningham 345s/RCA 245 globes and also will roll the recti with 5U4gs and maybe try the WE replica 274Bs from China. |
Stereotimes review conclusion on the PureDac:
Conclusion
The PureDAC deviates slightly from neutral with a sweet and richer midrange presentation. It has good bass and treble. Soundstaging, imaging and resolution were above average in absolute terms. In context of its asking price, the PureDAC has outstanding performance and it's shortcomings are only obvious when directly compared to the much more expensive equipment I had on hand. Evaluated in isolation, it is immensely likable.
Consider also that the PureDAC is not just a DAC - it is a capable preamp and balanced headphone amp. De-clutter your system by removing two additional boxes, two power cords, two interconnects, and two shelves ! Add a modest price tag (S$ 2,200 in Singapore) to that, and you have an absolute winner. |
Alex,
The Big7 with Cunningham 345s is very fast!
Tube Dacs are infinitely tunable. ;-) |
I like the 7 better than the 6, but its a matter of taste. The 6 does not offer DSD.
Not sure what the PCM chip is, but the DSD is Dac-chip-less. LPF only.
Tube rectified with either twin 6x5 FW rectifiers, or lately 5u4g / 274b/GZ34 class single recti.
Output tubes can be a pair of either 45 triodes/101d/2A3s. The 2A3 requires throwing a switch. infiniute fun rolling tubes here and so easy as they are exposed on top.
There are now tube rolling threads at the Circle for people who want to indulge. Lots of hunting on the Bay and here for NOS tubes to try. Debates already over what sounds best. I got my Cunninghams in anticipation! |
LoL,
Correct J,...I was giving the generic answer without confusing nuances and yes, there are many nuances as you rightly pointed out.
I heard the 6 in Europe and the 7 in the US, so not side by side. I think the 6 I heard was tube tricked out, but will confirm later, but the 7 was stock, in terms of tube complement. The 6 was lovely and perhaps more RBCD capable at the moment, but I am all over the place with RBCD, Hirez and DSD.
As a standard,the 6 does NOT have DSD, but as the units are hand built, I think as a special it can be done. My pal will look into adding a DSD module to his 6.
J, have you yet gotten to try an RCA VT-99 in your Dac yet? if so, what was the outcome? |
Yes J, somehow I forgot that. |
ABruce,
You know, i have never heard a L5 Dac...
Only 3-4-6 and 7. |
tube rolling in a Lampi is not that hard…simple change 2 output tubes (matched) and 1 or 2 rectis, depending on the model.
The permutations are limited. |
