The Chord Hugo TT is incredibly musical, detailed, and spacious and non-fatiguing. It’s close to turntable sound. It is not peaky. Rob Watts is on to something that is very special in the world of DACs. It’s wonderful. (Somehow it is much better than the original Hugo on which it is based.) |
And the the person talking about the Empirical Audio Synchro Mesh, I LOVE that device. I had to get one for my TV, Cable, Blue Ray and other digital and I'm so glad I did. Another great value in digital audio. |
Steve, Will your streamer device work with a NAS as well as streaming online content via the iPad? It sounds very interesting. |
Audioman, you should find a dealer for the new Ayre Codex at 1500 or so and bring in your DAC to listen side by side. I have heard the Yagsdradall (which is a nice DAC for the price IMHO) vs the Codex and to me the Codex seems to be in a different league. The Schiit guys do a wonderful job and offer great value as you stated, but the new Codex is to me a game changer. No pre or post ringing, dynamic and just a great buy. I heard them both in a very revealing system that costs around 80k or so. I listened to a few other under 5k DAC's that day in that system (the Schiit unit happened to be there as it belonged to a customer who wanted to hear it vs the Codex. The Schiit unit was on my very short list until I was able to buy the Empirical OSDE/SE which is a killer DAC in it's own right and maybe the best 'value' DAC made right now (again IMHO). |
The absolute best buy is the $2300 Schiit audio s new dac .I cannot spell it but Yagsdradall is close ,go to Computer Audiophile review no $15000 dac is better. If you only gave half that
The $1,200 Multibit Gungnir is 90% as good
Which I own. If I can afford theit flagship later in the year
I will buy it. Both are class leaders and exceptional huys. |
Hi all.
Sorry for the long lag. I'm enjoying a day inside with the family thanks to almost 20" of snow.... Stay inside and stay safe everyone.
Wednesday I had the opportunity to hear a Lumin T1, and compare it to my neighbors Aurender N10. It showed enormous potential, but lacked complexity and depth compared to the N10. I want to hear the comparably priced Lumin U1 as I think it may compare favorably with the N10. I'm intrigued. Hopefully the Lumin dealer I'm working with can get a hold of an S1 or U1 (just an S1 without the built in DAC) to audition.
A friend also brought over a home made fan'less Chinese PC running Windows 10 and for $600- it sounded pretty darn good. I thought it lacked midrange bloom and depth but excelled at accuracy and detail. I would imagine a better power supply would go a long way to helping it out.
I reached out to Neal of Music Vault and spoke with him at length. His new linear power supply is in the final phase of creation and once ready, I will acquire one to audition. I'll keep everyone updated as that gets closer.
I acquired a license for Roon. I'm going to compare that to JRiver to hear which sounds better. Curious to hear that.
To those in the Northeast, stay warm. |
I am familiar with one single product that is completely immune to the source, and that is the Empirical Audio Synchro Mesh. I have put countless digital sources in front of this product, and they all sound equally good using the Synchro Mesh after each and every one of them.
I am not saying it is the absolute best digital source I have heard, but it gets pretty damn close using anything you want in front of it. That is a stunning achievement in my book.
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paul79,
Yes, the shortcoming you are stating were there and yes, there are taken care of. It sounds nothing like the QBD76 sounded.
jwm,
I like what Dan Wright does and his modified Oppo is very good. However, when you compare Oppo as a stand alone unit vs using it as a transport for another DAC, the second scenario always has big disadvantage due to the crappy SPDIF output of Oppo. If you look inside the unit, the coaxial output is directly coming out of the board. I have spoken to lots of digital engineers and even though they claim that their DACs are immune to transport output quality, they all eventually admit that it is not entirely true.
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Yep. It is double the price now, so it must be better! ;)
All crap aside, the DAVE has many fans already, and I am very curious what this advanced FPGA approach to DAC’s has to offer.
All of the Chord DAC’s I have heard are pretty good, but they sacrifice in room presence for soundstage accuracy. They are nice, laid back (everything goes on behind the speakers), and polite for the most part. They also don’t have the best slam, dynamics, and clarity. A sonic fingerprint they all seem to have.
From what I have read about the DAVE, this is all taken care of with it, so interesting indeed.
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I use to own the Chord Dac that retailed for 6,000.00. I wasn't crazy about it. The modded Modright Oppo I had at the time was better.
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Dave retail price is $13300. $16000 is with the matching stand. |
On the distributor's website it shows the DAVE's US retail is $16,000, but I recall reading that it's ~$13,500 without the machined base. |
What’s the US retail on the DAVE?
(that just sounds so stupid. What a silly name. Lol) |
We have the first Chord Dave DAC In North America for evaluation. All we can say that it is absolutely stunning and easily compares to 100K systems by Esoteric and DCS. Lots of DACs nows day are optimized for DSD playback but they aren't as great for redbook. This Dave sounds better then the best R2R 16 bit non over sampling redbook DACs while being capable of handling every Hi Rez format in existence.
Dealer disclosure.
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This network streamer is only a renderer. It uses another computer or ipad etc. to drive the music to it over the internet. I was told to call it a streamer, but I think this might cause confusion. The pricepoint for the Interchange is $2600-2800 with the Dynamo power supply. The supply alone is almost $800.
Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Steve, thanks so much for sharing that info. I greatly appreciate it. So you are working on a network streamer? Wow, that would be pretty awesome. I'm sure you have no time frame, but IF you did one, would it have a ripper built in? Would it work with a NAS? Just curious. I do hope that Meridian works with everyone on MQA. Digital has too many smaller manufacturers and needs to have lower cost things in order for it to thrive. I know that Onkyo/Pioneer have MQA in their new DAP's. Can't wait for Tidal to stream it. They said that the more components that are using it, the better it will sound. That didn't make sense to me, other than the marketing part of it. Is there a price point for the streamer? |
I use the OR6 with both Dynamo and Power Block to good effect. I wish I knew when it will be available. The OR6 has the galvanic isolation, so the Power Block and server is on one side and the Dynamo and OR6 is on the other side of the isolation. OR6 has an initialization bug that comes and goes that prevents 176 and 192 without errors, so it is not ready for prime-time. I did not design the custom XMOS firmware for this, it was contracted, so that may be the issue. In the meantime, I am working on the Interchange, which is a Network Streamer with wired Ethernet connection. If the OR6 does not pan out, the Interchange will replace it.
Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Steve,
Very cool. So DSD over Dop at the SPDIF--AES/EBU outputs? When will the OR6 be prime time? Cost? Come with Dynamo or this optional as well?
Does your Power Block Galvanic isolate??
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JWM, thanks for your download on CES 2016. After reading Valin's sycophantic praise for the Martin Logan Neolith as best in show I feared for my sanity. I have heard the Neolith sound uniformly mediocre at Axpona and RMAF in rooms of varying size and with very high end electronics. Something is rotten in Denmark at the Absolute Sound. |
Richfield - the ground-loops are obvious in any system. Testing to see if they are gone is simple, just unplug the AC cords and use an ohmmeter between the grounds.
Steve N. Empirical Audio |
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Just like the OR5. I2S, AES and S/PDIF out.
Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Thanks Steve. So the Offramp 6 will do USB in and USB out?
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ctsooner - MQA depends on the licensing. IF its anything like MPEG, I cannot afford it. Hopefully, the chips and licensing will be affordable for the little guys. BTW, they say the big win is the impulse response, which has no pre and post ringing. My Overdrive already does this ;>) Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Paul - Signal transformers should not be a problem. You can always increase drive by reducing voltage with 2:1 ratio.
The XMOS interface I use is my Off-Ramp 6 prototype. It passes 128 DSD.
Steve N.
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Hey Steve,
Ya, I get that all should be earthed, but my DAC and Preamp will not run signal transformers very well. Neither have a ton of drive, but they sure sound AWESOME. It has 2 short interconnect paths to ground. :) Could I transformer couple the AC Ground of the preamp?
Steve. What is this component exactly?
"From server to USB interface - I use a XMOS interface with galvanic isolation"
Give it up man. Don't bogard every secret! lol Also, is it bit perfect? Pass DSD, High Resolution, etc?
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Steve I got to hear MQA earlier in the year when their reps were showing it off to a local dealer. I just happened to be there. I was floored by the open and relaxed sound I heard. I personally don't like Meridian speakers, but it was the first time I liked them. Will you be joining the MQA companies? They told us that the more MQA components you have in your system the better it gets. I don't know if that's hype or what. Eventually they'll have studio's joining them, but if a server has it, then will it work it's best with the Overdrive lets say? I know this thread will stay on grounding for a spell, but you brought up the MQA question and I've been wondering about a few things after hearing it, so I thought I'd ask. Thanks. |
Every time I add a new component to my system I have to change something to get rid of the ground loop hum.
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Steve I did not and I also did not go to the Mirage, Hard Rock or any other hotel that was not part of CES.
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JWM - did you get to hear the Meridian MQA demo at CES? As for eliminating my ground-loops, here are the three tactics I use to break them: From server to USB interface - I use a XMOS interface with galvanic isolation From USB interface to Overdrive DAC - The transformer on my DAC S/PDIF input takes care of this one From DAC to monoblock tube amps - I use my Final Drive line-level transformer and selector - also converts balanced to single-ended This eliminates all ground-loops in the system. I can put my ear up against my tweeter and nothing, even at full volume. Every component has earth ground. I never had any hum, but there was RF noise that is insidious. Don't know you have it until it is gone.
BTW, tube gear that is not earth-grounded is dangerous IMO. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
For all of you who did not go to CES this year, I will let you know my feelings. Oh, boy do they disagree with Valin, Harley, and Fremer. Best sound in order are 1) Gamut Zodiac speakers (139,000.00), Four M250i amps, and Pear Audio Table with Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge. The sound was fantastic. It had a very realistic, dynamic sound that sound great on rock material and also had the finesse to sound great with jazz and classical. 2) Audio Note Kondo room of Japan with the Kaiser Kawero Classic speakers (90,000.00). The sound was super transparent and natural. 3) The MSB room with their new Select Dac and Amps (200 watts Class A) and YG Acoustics speakers. This is the first time that I liked the YG speakers. The sound was very analog like vinyl. This is the best dac I ever heard. 4) The Absolare room with their new integrated amp, UBIQ Model One speakers (13,750.00), and Memory Player 64. This sound was open, relaxed, and dynamic at the same time. 5) VAC room set up with the big Focal Utopia speakers. This was way better than the sound I heard with the same speakers a few years ago. I would have liked a touch more meat on the bones. 6) TAD stand mounted speakers and TAD Amplifiers and Dac. I love TAD speakers and this was a great room. 7) Metronome is back with the new BMW 803 speakers. The sound was very musical and relaxed. I like these way better than the old diamond series. 8) Devore Fidelity Gibbon 10 (15,890.00), Well Tempered Royal 400 table and 16 inch arm, Total DAC, VTL 185 monos, and 5.5II preamp. Firebaugh says this pivoted arm has the same amout of error as a linear tracking tonearm. I think the table will sell for 12,500.00. 9) Audio Research and McIntosh room with Sounus Faber speakers. 10) Kharma Equisite MIDI old speaker design, DCS dac. I played a master tape copy on 24/176 digital and the sound was great very dynamic. The bass literally shook the room. It was slightly soft on top. 11) Elac room with the new 500.00 stand mounted speakers. All I can say is excellent. 12) Vandersteen room was polite and boring. They should sound better than this from other years at shows. Now for the Bad sound not in any order. 1) The Kharma Equisite MIDI Grnad (225,000.00), LAMM electronics, EMT 927 table and SME 3012 arm (50,000.00) with the ZYX Univ. premium (14,495.00) cartridge. 2) Martin Logan Renaissance and Neolith in two different rooms and they both sounded terrible. Bright and Lean baby bright and lean. 3) Lansche speakers and Ypsilon where the top end was super open, but the mids were muddy. It is very hard to match a driver to that flame tweeter. 4) Rockport and Rel subs, PS audio amps and dac. The sound was dead, dead, and dead. 5) Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC and Horn speakers with their single ended amps. Oh, I was hoping for much better sound. 6) Meitner amps and the New dac and transport. It was on the analytical side. I am not a fan of Meitner gear. 7) Technics new tower speaker was very bright. 8) Sony's tower speakers were boring not very open. 8) Hi Fidelity cables only because they came out with speaker wire that sells for 35,000.00. The end so far. If anyone wants pictures let me know. Peace everyone
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Yes Steve,
I am also very interested in your take on grounding in the digital domain for sure.
I have almost everything in my system AC grounded, including all external power supplies, and noticed a nice improvement in weight and focus AC grounding even my network equipment. I do realize that these are galvanically isolated with the router, but there is still a nice improvement here.
My tube preamp is the only thing that is not AC Grounded, as this creates a ground loop with my mono amps.
Thanks
Paul
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Tried to edit last post, but it's older than 30 minutes (they need to change that part of the site). I now have my new system updated on the site for those who have been asking. Thanks. |
I too would love to hear about it. I don't know what I can do IRT internal wiring in the house, but I love learning about this stuff. I think that the Synergistic Powercell I use deals with potential ground problems. Not totally sure about that. I seem to have dead silence in my system and I've never had a hum problem ever. I always felt fortunate. I think the new Audioqest Niagara 7000 power deal (not a conditioner) deals with grounding also. Seems like this is the next horizon, which is strange as we've had this problem from day one and known all about it. Sorry, this thread just made me think about this and why it's not spoken about more often. Seems like it shouldn't have to be that difficult a deal, but maybe it is. |
Steve. I wired my room myself. Each outlet has an exactly identical length of cable running from the outlet to the circuit panel. I hear nothing but silence with my stereo on, decent volume and source on pause.
However, I would love to hear your grounding solution. I'm always open to new ideas. |
Steve
How did you go about finding and then making sure the ground loops in your system are gone?
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Matt - I can see how everyone can have different experiences with the Antipodes server. The earlier ones did not have the really good linear power supply. Also, if they are not driving USB out to a low-jitter USB interface, this can make a big difference. That is aside from the systems that they were used in, which probably had lots of ground-loops and substandard active preamps etc... Lots to go wrong there, and usually does at these shows. Many times the room cost is shared and it ends up a mish mosh of different hardware and cables that adds up to crap sound. Very few exhibitors are even capable of achieving a great sound at a show, even on the third day when everything should be broken in. The point is that if it sounds crappy at a show, it may be due to other system things. On the other hand if it sounds great at a show, it will probably perform well at home. Then you have to root out the real weaknesses in your system. Matt - have you thought about breaking all of the ground-loops in your system? This is the next major step IMO. I have zero ground-loops in my system and it is dead quiet and spooky clear. Steve N. |
Matt, your homeboy needs to post a system thread with all his new toys (Trenner Isis, Berkley dac, etc, etc).... |
I'm not sure exactly which direction he is going. I will be getting and update from him in the next month or so and I will provide a update here or can send email directly to you.
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richfield_hunter,
Do you know if he is moving the MV servers to linear power supplies or sticking with switching PS?
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I have the Music Vault M7 and absolutley love the capability, quaility and most importantly the support I get from Neal. He is one of the nicest guys you will meet in audio. His vast experience in the world of computers bodes well to his continuing to improve the MV. He is working on some power supply improvements which will improve it even more. His prototype results he has achieved so far have provided a huge improvement according to Neal. I am going to receive the improved version once he is ready to update my M7. Bottom the MV is a great product with best in class product and technical support
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Hi all.
Labtec, the Antipodes DX that I heard was the same unit used at a major show and was well broken in. It was disappointing, to say the least. I had such high hopes based on Steve 's raves but it just didn't blow me away or even come close. My moded Mac mini sounded better. And the Aurender blew them both away. I also just (this morning) compared the N10 to a well executed, very expensive, Windows PC server and although software variations and settings varied overall performance, none had the level of proper tone, energy and musical involvement that the N10 provided. The PC was closer to the Aurender then anything else I have heard, but in the end the Aurender N10 got me closest to the source and to the music. And the N10's retail price is lower then the discounted price I could get the PC server for.
There are many mod'ers out there supping up PC's and Mac's to get the best there is. Wisnon is reporting about one that sounds like they are really going balls to the floor, and I am watching that one closely.
I may may be able to get a Lumin server in next Wednesday to compare to the N10 as well. I'll keep reporting.
As as far as DAC's go we are in a transition period. My SOTA Emm Labs DA2 is incoming (slowly) and the Chord DAVE and DCS Rossinni look intriguing to say the least. And Steve sounds like he's getting really close to a final version of his ODSX..... I would love to get one of each of those in my room to compare to the DA2 after its fully burned in!
In the meantime, I'm burning in the Plasmatron now and will do an A/B of the tubes engaged and disengaged next Wednesday and report my findings.
I need to acquire 2 Shunyata Sigma HC power cords for my amps so I can redistribute my Zitron Cobra's to my preamp and the Plasmatron. Also need a Sigma Digital for the incoming DAC so I can move the current Zitron Alpha Digital PC to the new Electrocompaniet sacd player, which needs to be burned in as well.
Finally, I need another pair of interconnects and a PC for the new Zanden 1200mk3 phono stage I spontaneous purchased... And a better turn table while I'm at it for the reference phono stage I just acquired. But the analog will be the absolute last thing I work on...
I actually feel like I'm getting close to there. It's sort of a strange sensation. Lol
stay tuned. I'll keep reporting as I can.
PS - for those who went to CES, keep the reports coming! Going to those shows can help to pique interest, but I would never rule something out because it didn't perform well at a show. |
Ctsooner, you can actually tell a lot about which equipment is "better" for your tastes by going to the shows. Any seasoned audiophile will be able to pick out traits that they like/dislike. For example, I heard sibilance at CES from the Dynaudio wireless/active/digitally amped $11k speakers that I couldn't live with, and I don't need them to send a pair to my house. I'm 100% positive that same sibilance would be there in my home.
Obviously, not everything you hear will translate 100% to your home, but most things will unless you have gross differences in room interactions or speaker/amp mismatches.
Unless you do scientifically compliant DBT, almost all evaluations are going to have an anecdotal and subjective aspect anyway...whether it's in your home or a show. The best part about the show is that they are all using roughly the same room and power source...plus you get to talk to the designer and understand more about their goals as well as any particular nuances about the show sound (i.e. they will often tell you about certain bass room modes that they couldn't tame with show supplies).
Ironically, my friend went to RMAF and bought an entire room of equipment because he liked the sound. It didn't suddenly sound different in his home.
If we're talking about a server, I'm not sure how it would perform any different at a show versus at home. Nevertheless, you're right. If you can A/B demo something in your home, that's ideal. Thus, if you didn't hear anything better from the Antipodes in your system, then that's great. You're saving yourself a nice amount of $$$. Enjoy... |
Thanks for sharing Swamp. So you are saying that we could send it back to have it upgraded as Windows upgrades? I keep hearing that Windows doesn't sound as good as other OS's....I assume that would affect his player wouldn't it? |
@dgarretson- I've had a MusicVault (or more correctly) MusicVaults for about 5 years. Worked my way up through the line to a Pearl or Emerald(or maybe a hybrid, I can't remember). Anyways I'm very happy w it. I heard the Antipodes once in a totally unfamiliar system so there is no way I can compare the two, but I will tell you that Neal is very easy to work with and very responsive. He will even log onto your device to help you out. Because the MusicVault is a modified Windows computer it can easily be upgraded with additional storage, newer OS or better output devices. Neal has been very helpful in making recommendations in that regard; once even telling me that an upgrade I was trying to order would offer no benefits.
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@dgarretson- I've had a MusicVault (or more correctly) MusicVaults for about 5 years. Worked my way up through the line to a Pearl or Emerald(or maybe a hybrid, I can't remember). Anyways I'm very happy w it. I heard the Antipodes once in a totally unfamiliar system so there is no way I can compare the two, but I will tell you that Neal is very easy to work with and very responsive. He will even log onto your device to help you out. Because the MusicVault is a modified Windows computer it can easily be upgraded with additional storage, newer OS or better output devices. Neal has been very helpful in making recommendations in that regard; once even telling me that an upgrade I was trying to order would offer no benefits.
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Not sure which one Matt had in. I think he probably had the DX. Not sure if it was the 2.0 or not. I heard the DS as that's more in line with the price range I have to look at. |
While on the subject of servers. Did anyone get the chance to hear the LH Labs crowd funded server called Source at CES 2016? Would just like to get an opinion how it compares against Mac Mini and other servers already out there like Aurender or Antipodes. |
ctsooner, did you and Matt hear the same Antipodes DX server? I ask because neither of you were impressed, so I am curious whether there may have been an issue with the unit you heard. Stranger things have happened. I am not saying it is the the greatest thing to come along for digital music, but I do hear it like Steve does, and over here it was clearly fuller, richer and more musical than a very well-appointed, and good-sounding, Mojo Mac mini with all the bells and whistles. It has the ripper you desire, so easy, you put in the disc and it rips and stores the file as lossless flac for immediate access in your library. |
Guys, I appreciate the show reports, but how in the world can anyone really know that something sounds better than another at a show in those conditions? Just wondering. That's one reason I love Matt's approach. Get things in YOUR room and your system and listen. I get that you can like or not like something, but I've always giving things extra chances if I hear them in a story or someone else's system if I don't like them at first. Not flaming anyone, but I have heard my Mac Mini, modded big time by Steven N vs Antipodes and Aurender in my own system. I know steven likes the Antipodes better, but I didn't hear such a huge difference that it made me even think of switching. I respect the heck out of Steve and love my OSDE/SE, but again, we all hear things differently. Soon the servers will be even better and less money. I personally am waiting on Melco and also MQA to be offered. I"ve heard some MQA in an all Meridian system (I don't usually like Meridian, but it sounded great) and I think it may be a difference maker. Time will tell obviously.
I heard the Music Vault in NH as well as Encore Audio in Sarasota two weeks ago and was impressed. I've spoken to Neal in the past and he's a great guy who will custom build anything you want. It's still on my short list of potential servers as I love the built in ripper that I wish all servers had. |
Has anyone heard or owned a recent Music Vault server or compared one to Aurender or Antipodes? I’ve only heard the Music Vault at shows, but they have always sounded good. I would tend to lean toward Neal, as he was an early entrant in the market space, has evolved the product, and continues to sell direct at reasonable prices and to directly support customers. His most recent top model appears to have all SSD music storage and an external clock link. The latter feature would presumably work well in concert with the rubidium clock that synchronizes my K-01X CDP. |
