Anyone have thoughts on the Peak Consult Zoltans?

Audiooracle, you are indeed indefatigable.

For me: The fact remains that Chinese HiFi is not about cutting-edge, it is about cutting costs, cutting wages, and cutting corners.

My focus is solely on the highest of the high end performers, the best of the best, and so I am in a somewhat unenviable position: It's not that I mean to be condescending, and I'm sorry if you feel that I am. It's that I must be extremely critical because my clients demand it, and as such I have to call it as I see it.

I have yet to see a Chinese, Taiwanese, Thai, Indonesian, or Malaysian product that can compete at the performance level of true world-class hi-fi references from Europe, North America or Japan.

The Chinese HAVE been able to do something wholly remarkable otherwise: They have been able to fiercely and unapologetically compete for price in the mid-fi market. Many of these companies seem simply to copy or emulate established European, North American, or Japanese designs. In fact, Usher has "shown it's appreciation" for established loudspeaker designs within its own catalog:

Usher Model S-520 seems to be a copy of an Acoustic Energy AE-1, Mk.II

Usher Models X-708, X-718 and X-719 are clearly "tributes" to Sonus Faber's old Concerto speakers.

Usher's D2 is quite the "homage" to JBL's legendary K2

Usher RW 729 is as close to a Sonus Faber Electa Amator copy as I have ever seen! Not only is the cabinet and driver compliment copied, even the wooden and stone-base stand is copied!

The Usher R 1.5 and 6.0 amplifiers seem almost dead copies for the old Threshold amps, while the P-307A preamp seems like it took a page from Cello's old playbook.

If Usher wants to be taken seriously as a competitor in the Reference department, they first have to come up with their own ideas. Instead, their catalog seems abundant with imitations and copies. Not that there isn't room for a Speaker-Clone company, but one cannot simultaneously be a speaker-clone company AND have a reasonable hope to be counted among the legends and references, as well.

There may come a day when Chinese products come in to their own and stand on their own and are not simply just "budget alternatives" to and clones of established references. So I suppose that it might be nice that a 300lb speaker from China is only $16,800/pair ... if we were buying speakers by the pound, that just might be a bargain by some measures. But we don't buy speakers by the pound. We hope for a high level of quality, creativity, originality, and technical achievement.

I understand your mission. You feel that there is a level of snobism in high end audio coincident with higher pricing, and you seem to feel that you can represent products that would bring a good measure of high performance to more people at lower prices, and your primary medium is right here in the internet. Nothing wrong with that. Internet sales and transshipping are the most productive ways to do business in this section of the market because it is hotly contested-for with predatory discounting being the most oft used temptation to attract the potential buyer. So while I do not market directly but rather sell only through authorized dealers, I seem nevertheless to have wandered into your pond and thus represent - if not a threat - at least a distraction. I apologize, but keep in mind that we are not necessarily cultivating the same client.

Where you imagine there to be "audio snobism" there is rather a client that is a connoisseur. This is someone who appreciates the advanced performance, the heirloom build quality, the heritage and provenance, the peerless musicality, and the notion that they will own something that is the Real Thing and not the budget-alternative or the clone. This isn't snobbery, it's a deep appreciation for the whole picture.

There is a neatness, a meticulously considered philosophy that is as simple as it is profound, and when one finally comes to terms with its uncomplicated beauty - there is a tranquility that it imbues upon the decision making process:

In reaction to my rude inquiry about how my friend (on a small wage) could afford to have purchased something very expensive, he simply commented, "I am not so rich that I can afford to buy cheap things."

And while the beauty of that sentiment is meaningful to audiophiles on a budget, the fact remains that *nobody* is so rich that they can afford to buy cheap things. Cheap things break. Cheap things deteriorate. Cheap things discolor and crack. Companies that make cheap things disappear and their promises, guarantees and warranties vaporize.

**That means, taken to lengths, that cheap things are more expensive than the more expensive things they are positioned to displace.**

As for a "shootout" with Zoltan - that would be silly. Any comparison should be as close to a dollar-for-dollar comparison between products as possible. As such, I would say the only appropriate speaker to compare the $16.8k Ushers to would be the $16.5k Peak InCognito-X. That leaves a simple $300 deficit between them to the favor of the Peaks, which are also about half as heavy as the Be20 (good news for people with stairs).

InCognito-X's run fairly loud on my 10 watt OTLs, although they'll handle up to 500 watts of solid-state if need be. I'm not certain that the Be 20 could get appreciable sound pressure at 10 watts, nor could it handle 500 watts of program - so I'm not sure if the comparison would be fair.

That very flat impedance and phase response of the InCognito-X really helps any amplifier perform at its most linear, and the excellent sensitivity means that you can throw low power tubes in the mix without apologies. Again - with abilities and peerless measurements like these, it's not necessarily fair to the Usher to compare.

That InCognito-X is a full-range 2-way design means that the acoustic output of the drivers will converge at a shorter distance with less wave interference, making the InCognito-X an excellent choice for even nearfield listening. I imagine that Usher won't do well in small spaces for nearfield listening, so we best not compare in these circumstances in order to level the playing field.

InCognito-X won't hit the 22 Hz mark of the Be 20, but they will come within a gnat's hair of 25 Hz in an average-sized room and will be extremely dynamic, with holographic imaging and midrange to weep for. So while it would work well in the nearfield, it will also (of course) work extremely well at standard listening distances.

Sound by Singer will soon have a pair of InCognito-X on the floor (they begin shipping from Denmark early next month) - go have a listen. You'll be shocked and amazed at what one can buy for just $16,500/pair: A full-range world-class loudspeaker handcrafted with real hardwoods by Danish fine carpenters, some of the best loudspeaker drivers in the world, with music reproduction so fine that - as one HE 2006 showgoer put it (when commenting about the sound of the InCognito-X in our demo room) - "If you weren't touched by the sonics in this room, you're made of ice!"

This one goes out to Allanbhaganinfo. I respect your opinion but we are one of the first few dealers in the country to deliver and install a pair of the BE 20s.

I would agree with you that the first Dancer series model, the extremely good 8571MK II's are not true competion to a $35,000.00 pair of Peaks, but the BE 20's are a different keattle of fish entirely!

When you examine what the BE 20 offers: a brand new state of the art pure Beryillium midrange driver, coupled to Usher's allready superb Beryillium Tweeter and you add in the magnificent Eton woofers, here is where you have the makings of a reference speaker giant killer at anywhere at 1/2 or even a 1/3 or more of these other reference class speakers!

Karma Grand ref has a Ceramic midrange and tweeter and two Eton woofers in a carbon fiber based cabinet. The Kharma's are $80,000.00 a pair!

The BE 20's have a pure Beryillium midrange and pure Beryillium tweeter and two Eton woofers in a 300lb sandwich cabinet of birch, mdf, and lead sheeting which makes the cabinet also incredibly innert and costs $16,800.00.
Sounds like you are getting a lot of the same design merits doesn't it?

I have heard the BE 20's both at the shows and at my client's home. We all went "ahhhhh" when we unboxed the speakers the finish was so stunning. The sound quality and build quality of these speakers is remarkable, and I would challenge you or anyone else to do a side by side comparison against the BE 20.

Does this sound like a rave, well your right it does. After spending close to tweenty years selling extremely expensive cost on object audio, along comes a company like Usher and their Texan gentilemen distributor, to bring remarkable sound and build quality at sane prices back to the market.

This is the reason I am an Usher zealot. Why should I want to charge 30k or 40k or 50k for a speaker when I can offer my clients very similar mind blowing sound for so much less, I call that integrity and serving my clients.

Yes I want to scream to the audiophile world "I am feed up and I won't take it anymore, buy Usher and be happy for a lot less!"

To Sterovox,

Your arguments are both amusing and just plain wrong!

First of all, I am no internet dealer. In fact, I do no internet sales of any kind! I am a brick and mortar dealer with close to a half million dollars worth of equipment on my floor! I do not sell outside of my region and I do not discount nor am I trying to sell to "budget oriented customers." Our website isn't up yet and we have not announced our presence to the world yet but we will.

Instead, we have been quietly assembling a very wide selection of some of the world's best audio and video gear.

You are right. I am on a mission. I sell state of the art products at all prices from companies that I and many famous reviewers feel represent some of the best products in the world. I sell products from Japan, France, New Zealand, Germany, Israel, England, Scotland, the United States, Taiwan and China. If I told most of the readers of these posts the truth, that many top European high end companies are building their products in China or some of the parts are being outsourced from China it would shock a lot of people.

In fact, the latest issue of Stereophile talks about the superior builds quality and artistry of the famous Quad speakers which are now being made entirely in China. In the review the writer states that the new Quads are much better built than the old Quads and are stunning in both finish and build quality! Isn't England also in Europe?

Also your anti Chinese bent is downright distasteful. The Chinese people were way ahead of the Europeans for many, years. China leads the world in the sciences and the arts. It was the Communists that keep the Chinese people down and off the world stage.

You call a value priced product cheap, and poke fun at how heavy the speakers are. Let’s compare the technical prowess of Peak Consult or lack their of:

First before you decided to import them, no one knew who Peak Consult was. How long have they been in business?
Usher is a 30 year old company committed to the highest levels of quality. Their state of the art factory is certified ISO 9001 which represents laboratory grade manufacturing. Their work force is college educated and is treated very well.

I said in another post USHER makes their own pure Beryllium drivers. The only other company to do so is JM Labs/Focal and even JM Labs hasn't built a midrange driver out of Beryllium! Usher also has created their own driver technology from scratch. Peak, if I remember, buys their drivers from Audio Technology.

I guess then making your own extremely technologically advanced drivers is therefore lacking in imagination and ingenuity. Before you say "copy cat of JM Labs," the Usher Beryllium tweeter measures better with lower distortion! ALSO I will say it again, USHER MAKES THEIR OWN pure Beryllium Midrange Driver and are the only ones to do so! This midrange driver was extremely expensive to produce and took two years of development time!

Usher is also a $70 million dollar company that has the research money to develop their own technologies. You are misunderstanding Usher in calling their speakers clones of others when their intent is to offer a wide range of products for the Asian market. USHER speakers are easy to drive and offer remarkable performance for the money.

Many reviewers have already rated numerous Usher models as offering outstanding sound quality and build quality.

If it is the clone game, gee, I think you could call a $16,000.00 two way the new Wilson Watt!

Yes, the two way Incognito X sounds like a remarkably good two way, but I will stand on my contention and I will gladly bring my 300lb Taiwanese {not Chinese made} monsters to compete with your $35,000 Zoltan's any day of the week.

As per fine Danish woodworking, the build quality of the cabinets is equally stunning and shows the finest artistic talents and care.

As for your comments about Sonus Faber clones, then I guess anyone who has made a two way with Scan Speak drivers could also be called that.

I will agree with you that Usher does build some clone or homage products, but that is an Asian company building a wide range of products for the Asian market. Imitation in the case of the Threshold clone shows a fondness for the original, which is no different than someone now coming up with a new version of the famous Dynaco Stereo 70.

No Stereovox, you are the one trying to justify a $90,000.00 turntable. Is this for the connoisseur or the snob with more money than sense! I am sure the turntable is quite fantastic, but how much better is it really than one of the multitude of other reference turntables that are priced at $10,000.00 or so. Artistry? Or is it just throwing money at it to enrich the pockets of the greedy retailer and the importer! I would love to hear how much better your $90,000.00 turntable is over Lloyd Walker's magnificent Proscenium Gold turntables which is $30,000.00?

My company stands for the new generation of high end audio.
Our focus is to sell the best in equipment which is superbly made and reasonably priced!

I will be happy to let you believe in your delusion that because a product is made in Europe, and I sell many really excellent European products including Danish speakers as well, that is it better because it is made in Europe.

My call to arms is for all companies to work to produce products that are excellent and affordable. I find it delusional for you to compare your $16,000.00 two way to the four way BE 20 and stand there trying to be credible.

Wake up, the world is on notice that both mainland China and Taiwan are heralding in the new industrial revolution. American and Europe builds less and less, not because the Chinese are making goods cheaper, but because they are making goods of remarkably high quality and doing it competitively! This is the way of the world. Most Japanese goods are no longer made in Japan either.

It is for this reason that superior Chinese and Taiwanese companies are taking over the world of manufacturing. The build quality of these goods is fantastic and the technological innovations are the reason most of the world's finest laptop computers are made in Taiwan.

Let you and Sound by Singer sell all the Peak Consults you like to people with more money than brains. I will be happy to educate my customers, the people who are willing to listen and to judge a product by its technical merits and artistry for themselves

Audiooracle,

I understand your difficulty and I'm sorry you get so upset. As I said, Usher makes very good budget speakers, many of them copies of past designs from other manufacturers, but still very good speakers for the money.

As for the Continuum: It defies explanation or comparison. If you ever have the privilege of hearing one installed in a truly world-class system, you will forever be unable to listen to other designs. The reason? Continuum changed the rulebook, changed the way in which things are designed, and developed something completely new. And this is indicative of an earlier point of mine: the companies I represent embody the values of originality, extremely high build quality, and unmatched technical achievement. The Caliburn is simply the most extraordinary machine ever made for playing records.

I have nothing bad to say about Lloyd Walker's Proscenium Gold turntable. I enjoyed my chance to hear it in a reference system and it was a very good performer. My team and I then disassembled it and boxed it up to send away, as our client was replacing it with a Caliburn system. I have gotten to hear reference rigs such as the Basis and the SME 30 for the same reasons: clients replacing their "reference" record players with the world's most magnificent record playing machine: The Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn.

It seems to me that you are succumbing to a prejudice that is fairly common but nonetheless distracting: You feel insulted that I would want to compare the InCognito-X to the Be 20 because the X is a 2 way and the 20 is a 4-way. This is not about the weight of materials (300lbs vs. 150 lbs), nor is it about the number of drivers (4 vs. 2). We must only compare quality. Quality of build, quality of sound reproduction, quality of technical achievement.

Fact is, 2-ways' only limitation historically has been LF. Peak has removed that limitation in the InCognito-X, so now the only comparison left to do is one of pure quality, and in that department I guarantee you the Be 20 would have an extremely, EXTREMELY difficult time vs. the InCognito-X. There is no reasonable reason to be upset by the comparison, as the InCognito-X is an extremely fine instrument, and original design, heir to a great Danish heritage of loudspeaker design, and an extraordinary technical achievement on its own.

I'm sorry, as well, if I erroneously labeled you an internet dealer. I assumed that you were simply because that seems to be the only way to survive in the fiercely competitive world of mid-priced hifi. It wasn't meant to be a pejorative, but rather an acknowledgement. Mea Culpa.

As for Usher building clones - that is precisely the reason that they have not yet "arrived" - they seem far too interested in imitating, externally, the successful designs of others (American and European designers), than with developing their own philosophy and presenting it to the world.

The appearance of quality is not necessarily indicative of the existence of quality, and when a company goes to great lengths to create a clone - at least in looks - it seems to tell me that they are more interested in creating a deception of equivalency than standing on their own originality, creativity, and technical achievement. Even their "Dancer" series borrows heavily from the multi-layered laminations of hardwoods in a "lute" extrusion profile that Franco Serblin developed for Sonus Faber. In fact, I would say that Usher seems rather obsessed with Sonus Faber and Franco Serblin's designs and achievements. But there can be no excusing copies and clones. When you say:

>"I will agree with you that Usher does build some clone or homage
>products, but that is an Asian company building a wide range of products
>for the Asian market. Imitation in the case of the Threshold clone shows a
>fondness for the original, which is no different than someone now coming
>up with a new version of the famous Dynaco Stereo 70."

That is truly sad. It allows, philosophically, for theft and excuses them simply because they are an Asian company building products for an Asian market. It is no different than someone putting a Ferrari kit on a Fiero - it may have a similar look on the outside, but it's still a Fiero.

Usher may have developed its own Berylliuim driver, but it was not before nor even contemporaneous with the JM Lab achievement. Instead, it was built after JM Lab put their money, their time, their talent, their originality and creativity on the line to develop the first one. It is extremely difficult to develop something new, and extremely simply to follow in the footsteps of achievement and lift technology. I'm sure they are now developing a diamond tweeter, since the Beryllium has gone somewhat out of style.

Usher seems to remain a very well-funded copycat company that builds extremely good speakers for the money but, so far, doesn't seem to have introduced anything original, nor do they seem to have made strides in technical achievement.

Your quip about Quad is unrelated: Although they are being built in China, they are being built under license from the original designer (Peter Walker, RIP) and the present owners of the original design. Peter Walker's technical achievement is being preserved and reproduced under license, not lifted unceremoniously and reproduced without permission. Shouldn't Usher be paying royalty or licensing to Sonus Faber?

By contrast, Peak uses Audiotechnology to build their custom-designed drivers because Audiotechnology has the heritage, provenance, creativity, originality, and technical achievements of Ejvind and Per Skaaning behind them. Ejvind founded Dynaudio, Scan Speak, and Audiotechnology. There is no better family to have make drivers in the world, which is why companies such as Sonus Faber, Verity, Rockport and Peak turn to them for their custom solutions. And while Peak is not a 30 year old company, they are a 10 year old company (the "X" in InCognito-X stands for 10 year anniversary) and there is no danger of them going anywhere but up.

Heritage, provenance, originality, creativity, and technical achievement. These are the ingredients of the kind of greatness that stands the test of time.

Peak has them.

Usher does not.

.

Audiooracle writes:

ALSO I will say it again, USHER MAKES THEIR OWN pure Beryllium Midrange Driver and are the only ones to do so!

That's untrue. Consider Technical Audio Devices, who first built a beryllium compression driver in 1975, and who continue to build beryllium tweeters and MIDRANGE units to this day. The TAD Coherent Source Transducer is a concentric midrange-tweeter unit.

And to keep this in perspective, Yamaha made a beryllium midrange driver in the late 70s through to late '80s - as used in the NS1000 range.

Regards,