Are internet sales taking business or not?

It is really not possible to take business away from high-end retailers by buying online, because the online seller is also a high-end retailer somewhere. I agree with Elizabeth on they should all be online in some respect.

There are also quite a few manufacturers that still prohibit online sales of their new gear. B&W Loudspeakers is one. Note the one dealer advertising new B&W on Audiogon states he will not risk losing his franchise, so you must visit the store to buy it. He also only quotes MSRP $$. He is probably also prohibited from offering a discount online even if you come pick it up at the store. B&W's especially the lower models sell like hotcakes and provide dealers with the cashflow needed to be able to sell the more exotic slow moving gear.

Even if you are buying used equipment, someone had to buy it new first; and you buying it used gives that person cash for more new equipment.

Itsalldark

very good points.

The only problem i see is that constantly buying used gear instead of new gear might hurt the manufacturers.
On the other hand, sites like this also provide an opportunity for smaller companys to get themselves heared.

I must admit though, i would really hate for the brick and mortars to go. You cannot audition a speaker online.

who knows. The internet might be the demise of several high production companys. They built thier products so good, that even if you are the 2nd owner they still perform as well as ever.

who knows eh?

I know if it was not for Audiogon, i wouldnt have had the chance to learn so much about HighEnd audio.

One of the real values is the opinions of fellow audiogon'ers on audio gear. This is the ONLY source i feel i can trust for un-biased information on various products.

This weekend im buying my first used gear off of audiogon. Its a tuner, because i dont already have one. It looks like a real good deal too. Cannot say i feel bad about it.

I guess Ebay and places like Audiogon really do provide the ability for many people to get into High End audio that normally wouldnt be able to afford it.

I would have a real hard time coming up with 3,000+ for a Krell-300il, however, i could probably come up with 1,500.

You all make very food points. Ccertain manufactureres do not let dealers advertise online like Krell, Levinson, etc. In general the dealers lost trade in sales remember when you paid full retial and got $.25 on the dollar with your trade in? When you buy on line, you really do not know what you are getting. I have issues with sending large sums of money to someone I do not know and where I cannot see the component I am buying.

I am still told told by manufacturers that the local dealer provides service. I still do not know what that means, higher prices and an attitude?

The other issue is pricing. I have not paid list price for most of the itmes that I have purchased in my life. Home, car, etc. So why would I pay list price for a stereo system. I remember 15 years ago walikng into a dealer who put together a $5000 system for me with a Kinergetics power amp, CDP and Vanndy 2CE speakers with cables, etc. I asked for a discount and they told me that they do not offer a discount. I was in NYC the next day and the local stereo shop had the Kinergetics amp on a close out for 50% off. Sold!

So they need to define what service they provide and offer better pricing. I don't think they need to offer 30-50% off but on a system purchase maybe 15-25% would be in the ball park.

Last, my friend who is a dealer has told me time and time again that the people who take up the most of his time to come into the store and listen to different components usually do not buy. Well, that is the same for my business too. In order for me to win a deal, I have to take the time to prepare a proposal and sometimes follow up with a product demonstration and that does not always result in a sale.

This past week I was looking for a preamp that retials for $8K. The dealer would take my one year old Pass X-1 preamp trade in plus $4K. The dealer probbaly gets 40% off retail so that is $4800. They could sell my pass for maybe $3K and make $3800 profit on this transaction. I would rather have sold my X-1 for $3K myself and paid 20% off the retail ($6200) for $800 savings.

That is all from me, and Happy Listening.

We are seeing the evolution of the retail business from store front to the internet across the entire market place.Market forces will resolve these with time.For example a manufacturer could stop distributing its goods through retailers who mark up their price by ca.100%.Some european high end manufacturers are priced out of the US market because of the retailer markup.There are high end furniture manufacturers who have their own showrooms and avoid the extra mark up.
When I started the hobby 40 years ago the high end retailer was a hobbiest.The service was great you could borough equipment to listen in your own home,he was set the system up for you at no charge etc.In contrast the retailers in my area provide very little if any of these services.When they provide sevice at an exorbitant cost you are lucky if you get a serviceman who does not need a manual to figure out the equipment you just bought.I would be be willing to pay a premium for good service.I believe within 10 years from now only highend stores left will be the ones owned by honest dedicated hobbiest providing superb service including home installation.

High end audio sales was a closed society at one time. This dates back to the day when the enthusiast started his own business. They did everything for the buyer, even holding you hand as you wrote the check if that's what you wanted. In return, they kept all their knowledge secret as if they were performing some kind of voodoo for your benefit. They didn't explain much which kept you coming back. The buyer relied on his ears and budget in making a purchasing decision. In many ways that was a very good thing.

As the high end business grew technicians and knowledgeable sales staff left the business for other careers with most remaining enthusiasts of the hobby. These folks have shared their knowledge through the internet which gives us all the ability to make a fairly informed choice even without the opportunity of prior audition. In many ways the high end salons provided a revolving door (a training ground if you will) through growth for all the people we take advice from.

At one time auto sales were the same way. Ever try to buy a NADA price guide 30 years ago? People didn't know how much money the car business generated until some that left wrote books or started some other type of venture to reward themselves from part of that businesses earnings thereby educating the consumer. It's inevitable that the audio industry will become hyper competitive just like the car business. Service may be poor nowadays but it will get even worse until audio franchises are traded on the NYSE. Maybe that's an exaggeration but the point is valid. Knowledge and valuable advice are now a couple of clicks away and free of charge. IMHO, that is what has changed this industry so very much.