Are internet sales taking business or not?

There is no question that the internet is crushing high end audio retailers. Think about it, why are you here? we can all say that it is because of poor sales help--they don't care, whatever. But the real issue is that the retailer can not compete with sites like Audiogon when it comes to price and that is the bottom line. We are buying equipment and other assorted goodies at almost half the retail price and most of it is in like new or mint condition( most people on this site take pride in the condition of there equipment). It gives most of us the chance to experiment with lots of different options. You can buy something and try it for a while-decide if you like it and if you don't you can re-list the item and sell it for what you paid of very close to that. There is no retailer I know of that can provide that kind of service. When it comes to cables of any type--they are always better after they have been used for a hundred hours or so. Why would you buy new ones-buy used ones and get immediate gradification--they sound great right out of the box! Yes, you may have to do a little research on your own, but with all info available to us even on one site it's not that tough.I would love to support my local retailer, but the price I have to pay is to high. I purchased a pair of Thiel speakers at my local retailer a few years back , just before I found this site, and was I in for a shock. I found that there were a number of speakers just like the ones I had purchased listed on this site in like new condition with original boxes etc for less then half the price. When I mentioned this to my local dealer he informed me that because I has purchased the speakers from them I had the opporunity to trade the speakers back in and I would recieve a credit in full towards the purchase of another pair of speakers at full retail. What a great deal--for them! I am not sure what they can do to get back in the game. I am sure it is a problem for the manufactures as well--no retailers to sell the stuff, how do you get it out there in the market place. I'm just glad I found this site. I have put together a wonderful system over the last couple of years and really enjoy it. I did not come even close on the first attempt or even the second or third, but this site allowed me the flexibility to explore which is a big part of the fun.

I think there is a demarcation between what naturally fits the internet and what fits brick and mortar. Researching speakers and heavy monoblocks is best done through dealers where it 's possible to listen and a/b. Cables on the other hand are far better handled over the internet, since no dealer can afford to carry a big enough stock of them anyway, and there are too many small designers to have good dealer representation. Cable prices could then be more rational without the middlemen.

In the future, I believe there has to be such a natural split between the two marketplaces. The important thing is that there is some ethics on the part of buyers, since local dealerships will certainly disappear if you research speakers at the dealership and then buy used. It's tempting to do but the result is obvious.

It is really not possible to take business away from high-end retailers by buying online, because the online seller is also a high-end retailer somewhere. I agree with Elizabeth on they should all be online in some respect.

There are also quite a few manufacturers that still prohibit online sales of their new gear. B&W Loudspeakers is one. Note the one dealer advertising new B&W on Audiogon states he will not risk losing his franchise, so you must visit the store to buy it. He also only quotes MSRP $$. He is probably also prohibited from offering a discount online even if you come pick it up at the store. B&W's especially the lower models sell like hotcakes and provide dealers with the cashflow needed to be able to sell the more exotic slow moving gear.

Even if you are buying used equipment, someone had to buy it new first; and you buying it used gives that person cash for more new equipment.

Itsalldark

very good points.

The only problem i see is that constantly buying used gear instead of new gear might hurt the manufacturers.
On the other hand, sites like this also provide an opportunity for smaller companys to get themselves heared.

I must admit though, i would really hate for the brick and mortars to go. You cannot audition a speaker online.

who knows. The internet might be the demise of several high production companys. They built thier products so good, that even if you are the 2nd owner they still perform as well as ever.

who knows eh?

I know if it was not for Audiogon, i wouldnt have had the chance to learn so much about HighEnd audio.

One of the real values is the opinions of fellow audiogon'ers on audio gear. This is the ONLY source i feel i can trust for un-biased information on various products.

This weekend im buying my first used gear off of audiogon. Its a tuner, because i dont already have one. It looks like a real good deal too. Cannot say i feel bad about it.

I guess Ebay and places like Audiogon really do provide the ability for many people to get into High End audio that normally wouldnt be able to afford it.

I would have a real hard time coming up with 3,000+ for a Krell-300il, however, i could probably come up with 1,500.

You all make very food points. Ccertain manufactureres do not let dealers advertise online like Krell, Levinson, etc. In general the dealers lost trade in sales remember when you paid full retial and got $.25 on the dollar with your trade in? When you buy on line, you really do not know what you are getting. I have issues with sending large sums of money to someone I do not know and where I cannot see the component I am buying.

I am still told told by manufacturers that the local dealer provides service. I still do not know what that means, higher prices and an attitude?

The other issue is pricing. I have not paid list price for most of the itmes that I have purchased in my life. Home, car, etc. So why would I pay list price for a stereo system. I remember 15 years ago walikng into a dealer who put together a $5000 system for me with a Kinergetics power amp, CDP and Vanndy 2CE speakers with cables, etc. I asked for a discount and they told me that they do not offer a discount. I was in NYC the next day and the local stereo shop had the Kinergetics amp on a close out for 50% off. Sold!

So they need to define what service they provide and offer better pricing. I don't think they need to offer 30-50% off but on a system purchase maybe 15-25% would be in the ball park.

Last, my friend who is a dealer has told me time and time again that the people who take up the most of his time to come into the store and listen to different components usually do not buy. Well, that is the same for my business too. In order for me to win a deal, I have to take the time to prepare a proposal and sometimes follow up with a product demonstration and that does not always result in a sale.

This past week I was looking for a preamp that retials for $8K. The dealer would take my one year old Pass X-1 preamp trade in plus $4K. The dealer probbaly gets 40% off retail so that is $4800. They could sell my pass for maybe $3K and make $3800 profit on this transaction. I would rather have sold my X-1 for $3K myself and paid 20% off the retail ($6200) for $800 savings.

That is all from me, and Happy Listening.