Good point edev- i have been using corner Bass busters ,and 2x4 ft absorption
Panels,and first reflection ,even overhead before your seating area for reflections
With carpeting not so much hardwood ,for sure. Today's panels some even have artwork on them under equipment I so acoustics , good Med price Still points $$
A bit pricy I use Herbies a lot .for Vacuum tubes essential, and his tall footers
And vibration pucks. These all add up and keep cables separated and off the carpet. Or floor. Treating your cables the Best out there which Bass uses
Stabilant ,Stabilant-22 is cut with alcohol for tight areas, apply a 12year +
Effectiveness if you are not touching .first clean with 99% isopropyl alcohol
All connectors male,and female including power cords ,and ice inlets high quality
Foam applicators Craig I like best big and small for tube pins the Stabilant
Enhances all electrical conductivity,and protects, go to their sure Many awards .
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If your into the hobby, and want to make the best of your system then you have to consider aftermarket options.
I at first hesitated on pulling the trigger on cable and then changed course and don’t regret it, despite a ton of cash spent.
All things add up to get to the plus side of the systems grade and you can start with one, borrow, try, buy whatever.
Last, while power is important so is the room treatment and isolation.
Always learn, choose and listen.
Happy New Year!
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Toe tap audio, Sablon are a very respectable cable and were mentioned in 6moons online Magazine in 2015 the Verastarr grand illusion cables review,
Not quite as complete as the Verastarr cable, but still very good.
That is saying alot . |
Toe tap audio why don't you say how much the Sablon power cord was $$
That would give others an idea of how cost effective it would be for them. |
I’m getting a lot of joy from cables made by Sablon. Started with their USB cable and that was so good I had to try the Sablon IC’s. Outstanding again. So next I needed to try the Sablon Power cables. Plugged it into my server and the increase in performance was stunning. All the cables helped to produce a much more open and natural sound, which is denser and visceral with more detail. Highly recommended.
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One thing j do know, and better then half the people do not.
Having been directly involved in modding my equipment.and owning a Audio store I speak from facts. Less then 25% of the cost actually goes into the cost of mtg,
Everything else is overhead and at least 45% dealer markup. Meaning the internal parts are at best average ,until you start spending over $10k it is just a fact if life
In electronics thst is why Modwrigh t Audio,red wine and others have been so successfully better parts quality in key locations .I have 20 years of this my whole system us built with synergy ,not $$ in mind ,thst being said
Quality capacitors,resistors, all cost$$ a that too goes for wiring ,controls ,
Marana is not what Marantz once was .hand built Vacuum tube made in USA.
Even they have several 3-4 price quality groupings like Copper chassis these bits and more are in the $$4k and up grouping. You get what you pay for ,usually. |
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If the electrons traveled 2,000 miles the first thing your amp sees is what comes out of IT'S power cord .
About like saying no sense in using a recipe because the veggies came from California .
Basic physics ."
Finally a persuasive analogy.
The Veggies = electricity
The recipe = the assembly of parts that makes the device use the veggies to amplify low-volume audio signals to a level appropriate to drive speakers.
The power cord = one of the utensils. |
I guess audio stores know better than Marantz when it comes to power cords and sound. That makes a lot of $$$ sense.
Or maybe Marantz insists on using the stock power cord so that their electronics sound their worse.
Ah! no no. I know, they are using reverse psychology. |
That makes no sense whatso ever. I guarantee one of my Verastarr power cords
Would add considerably to the fidelity. I have owned a Audio store and
Seen all the B.S. that they provide.the stock power cord is not even that good.
Any quality aftermarket cord would add more fidelity.
What gauge is the wire for starters ? How many wpc is your amplifier ?
Is it a integrated,receiver ? |
Why does Marantz advise to NOT use another power cord than the one provided? |
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The lowest possible cost is a strategy which may be effective.
Considering being able to BUY better, more expensive components may outweigh the advantage of upscale wires.
I used to mention this as a strategy.
But my current electronics are really the sort of sound I totally want. And THEN I started buying crazy expensive IC to be 'icing on the cake'.
If I did not have the right sound, and was still searching for something, I would avoid spending big bucks on IC, and concentrate on the electronics, and speakers.
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As far as I am concerned 1% is the more correct ballpark.
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Generally I consider 10% of the cost of the two components to be connected as reasonable for the connecting cable. |
Yes mainly direct sales , and if buying, especially more then one item
Very hood deals can be done, and he offers a solid 30 day money back
Satisfaction guarantee. I sent back one time a umbilical cord for my dacs external power supply .not to be undone he bought a oyside barrrl connectors and Double Copper foil leads ,shielded .Much better. Just to not be undone he takes great pride in musicality, even in power cords.
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Yes, 10% is the bare minimum- audioman58
20% is even better for most systems. Verastarr is really gaining traction in the Cable marketplace. Is this a direct-sales business? If not, can you guys suggest a dealer/retailer?
Happy Listening!
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not at all surprising to hear differences with digital cables
- USB can carry noise into the DAC and often needs galvanic isolation (with exceptions for well designed newer DACs like Benchmark)
- the switching mode power supplies in most wall warts can also put noise onto the power cord which again can reach the DAC, so use an LPS, a star-quad cable design or a choke
speaker cables can affect speakers with cones which represent complex loads
if you hear a difference with an AC power cord then you should have used an isolation transformer instead of spend big $$ on a lessor 'fix' (or balanced power supply, but they are pretty spendy)
if you hear a difference with interconnects, they you should be using a balanced design
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Myself use a 20% rule for Myself ,Is that wrong ?
These are only guide lines .I knows people who gave spent $35k on cables
$15k on power cords alone. The Verastarr Silver alloy foils are = to a awg9 gauge
And every piece of gear just sounded music more resolved and natural noise floor included much lower. Are they worth $3k each ? If you can afford then why not
When the rest of your system is top of the line. It is all relative to what you have ,
Can afford ,and willing to spend . I remrmbrr Kimbers Black Pearls.
6ft Loudspeaker cable statement. - $$ 15,000 and several were sold.
The sky is the limit in Audio.
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I follow the 0% rule for cabling. Is that wrong? 😳 |
Excellent point- elizabeth
I concur and follow the 10% rule regarding cabling. This is a fine place to start.
Happy Listening!
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I think power cords are most important thing , but it varies from system to system .
I believe it's largely impedance matching which is a buy and try deal unless
you have a Phd in EE and a lab to test all with .
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Surprisingly, I've heard bigger differences with digital cables than analog cables in my system.
Magnepan 3.7i's
Sanders Magtech
Audio Research REF6
Schiit Yggdrasil |
One of the old saws about cables was to spend about 10% of the system cost on cables. This would include IC and PC (interconnects and Power Cords).
For a beginner (someone confused about what they should do..) this is a great way to cut through some of the confusion.
Plus IMO in a inexpensive system, the wires generally just need to be wires.
On the other hand, for 'old pros' and folks who feel they can handle the task, 10% is not a guide.
For myself I could hear slight differences in IC when I had under $2K a pop stuff. My first WOW moment with a PC was buying a premade cord cheaper than one I could make. and yeah I can hear a difference.
For IC it was really when I already had $$$ power conditioning and $5K a pop electronics. Then I could hear differences pretty easily.
I still did not run around experimenting. I bought a cable I felt might be worth trying Cardas Parsec. ($320/m) Which was better than my old collection of various IC. Finally I jumped and bought some much more expensive cable $900 a meter.(total $7000 on IC)
And finally, if you LIKE what you have, then that is all you need.
Some guys (on another site) were saying Kimber 8TC is no good. Well I use it, and have for 20 years. I am satisfied. So why should I run around searching for something else, when I am happy as is?
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Understood. You have been granted safe passage.
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Literary privilege .
Basic exemption .
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schubert
If the electrons traveled 2,000 miles the first thing your amp sees is what
comes out of IT'S power cord .
About like saying no sense in using a recipe because the veggies came from California .
Basic physics.
>>>>>Funny guy. Electrons don’t travel. Basic physics. 🤯
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If the electrons traveled 2,000 miles the first thing your amp sees is what
comes out of IT'S power cord .
About like saying no sense in using a recipe because the veggies came from California .
Basic physics .
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cables are a real crap shoot. any cable might work in one system, and be deleterious in another. You need to experiment to find out which kind work best for you.
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Bac 2 vinyl get with the program.
The electricity coming in is one thing you have magnetic fields and RF noise.on a
Untreated wire. If a factory is near house can be picked up.
Dedicated cables work to better the signal, the aftermarket cables for one a 6-9
Pure Copper cable ,with RF shield is many times a more clean signal and is in fact the start of your signal path from vomponent to line conditioner . If you think a stock $10 beldon power cord
Brings you the same Audible benefits, then every Audiophile in the world
Is deaf- what you failed to mention was what power cord do you use ?
How about interconnects ,Loudspeaker cable . For you to make a blank statement
Is pure ignorance . I owned a Audio store for over 8 years , and I have proven on Many instances the merit of spending at least 20% of your system on cables.
Currently I have moved up to Verastarr Audio cables .which in fact several
Reviewers personally own and they were not free of charge. Far from it.
Proper cable design geometry is not black magic ,more Science . |
LMAO!! How is three feet of cable attached to fifty feet of Romex going to improve the electrical current? It can’t!! It can’t…Interconnects make a difference, but power cords, hahahahaha…Not to mention that power you are getting has traveled miles to to to your stereo and you think three feet, 5 feet, whatever is going to improve the current? Hahahaha. Guys may want to study basic current physics... |
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Excellent post by audioman58 !!
The only way to know is to put a cable into your system and listen.
Suggest : go to THECABLECOMPANY.com and access their lending library.
Also see JPSLABS.com their cables are excellent.
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+ 1 on synergy and + a million on buying used. Cables are easy and safe to buy relative to components and much cheaper to ship, a no brainer used. I've settled on fairly inexpensive cables, Jorma Design Digital, Auditorium23 and Siltech interconnects, Audio Note Lexus speaker cables, and Cerious Nano-Signature power cords. My system sounds better than ever and the only cables that retailed for over $1K were the Siltech and Jorma and bought both used at a 1/4 to 1/3 off retail. Lots of different ways to skin the proverbial cat cabling one's system!
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To Audioman58 and all others ,
You had the opportunity to experience different interconnects , speaker and power cords , something that few are able to afford the experience .
While I started out with Monster cables close to 40 years ago ,
it took 30 years before I started moving up ,
first to Blue Jeans , then to Cardas Quadlink and am now using
Cardas Neutral Reference ICs and speaker with Golden Reference PCs.
Luckily the Synergy in my system works , are their better or more compatible ? maybe but for me my next upgrade will be moving up to Golden Reference since I have a good thing that works.
I feel that that is the problem most people have when changing the
ICs , PCs and /or speaker cables is the SYNERGY .
The used market is where I have purchased my " expensive " cables.
Is there an answer ? I say pick your manufacture and look for used ones,
or try The Cable Company that allows in home trials as do some local audio shops. or try making your own .
I agree with you that you have to spend some money to get the
good, better and best results once you find the Synergy that
works in your system.
Good Luck
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Hello You are correct in part . I have had several cables from other Audiophiles brought over and my current cable was superior in musicality . My system has so much better components then most $$
megabuck units . I owned a Audiostore in Europe and found out long ago
most of your name brands give average parts quality and a pretty face .
inside the capacitors are most certainly lacking even more so with most Loudspeakers for example ,wiring,resistors I have 0 crystal copper wired throughout my system
the Verastarr speaker cable even built the wire harness for my open baffle speakers. I just spent $500 just to flavor my speakers a bit more and it was not
Duelund way over priced and many feel that my combinations just bring more realism or flavor to the table. I have well over 10,000 hours just in voicing capacitors
sometimes Audio is way too compulsive . I have spent days trying to find fault then just listen . I have saved $1000s in what a reference big name company would charge with as good or better results just implementing the correct
boutique parts, p.s I have had people say all capacitors sound similar .
or a power cord should all sound similar .many engineers have Tin ears I have found out. Some capacitors take weeks to fully settle in an engineer says 24 hours .
a perfect example a Vacuum Tube does not measure that great
compared to a solid state devise . But can sound dam good .everything has
a value somewhere. Happy Listening.😎🎶 |
I completely disagree and I'm actually you feel this way being in the hobby over 35 years. I don't disagree that more expensive cables CAN sound better than cheaper ones but there is no line in the sand that means the higher the price, the better the sound.
I think we have all changed wiring in out systems over the years, I have replaced some with more expensive cables and other with much cheaper cables....it's all about synergy not price.
I'd bet the bank that if you did a blind test of let's say 5 cables you would not rank them in order of price.
Ive also had components where cabling made a very big difference, others were barely noticble, if at all. |
Crimp connectors like the Furutech 24k Gold over Phosphor bronze is night and day better then solder ,lead is not too good
of a conductor. My speakers have Goldplated Copper Mundorf screw terminal Xover board. If you use bare Copper buy the Stabilant-22 it not only enhances the conductivity,but prevents
oxidation for a minimum of over 12 years if not disturbed.
go to the Stabilant site. if NASA uses it it is superior. |
+1 grannyring.
I pretty much agree with grannyring. I know some people aren't into DIY, therefore they want to purchase and pay more money for a finished pair of cables, not that there is anything wrong with that.
Shortly I'll be testing a new product (bananas) on the ends of my New Duelund wire (fully broken in) to listen for improvement vs no connectors. |
I tried all manner of cables and like an earlier poster the New Duelund wire is as good as I have heard. No connectors, fully broken in they are just wonderful. |
toddverronne
I like audioman58 he has a lot to offer.
With that said your comment was funny to me.
I don't think english is his first language. I may be wrong though. |
To be totally honest I am far better building an Audio system them grammar, my opologies. |
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I was a sceptic too, but DIY experimentation let me hear what I was missing.. no need to drop lots of money to hear a difference if you're curious.
@audioman58 I love your spirit! Your punctuation and spacing though.. not so much! Are you typing wearing boxing gloves? 😁 |
Thanks fellow Audiophiles at least I know there are some of us that are willing to take the chance into the unknown and risk sometimes a lot to get close to what we would call Audio Heaven !!
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+1 @teo_audio I've said the same in several posts lately but never as succinctly as you just did. Bravo!
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Jafant thanks for sharing that , some people feel minimal spending on cables
is all that is needed ,any more monies a waste,not true ,but I cannot advocate
a $15k pair of 6 ft Speaker cables either my limits are $1500 per cable
capacitors are another taboo thing many donot understand I have spent 20years
comparing and documenting runin Times ,combinations and the elimination
of all Electrolytic caps in a Loudspeakers Xover ,to this day some companies still
do . Duelund capacitors Top cast,and Hybrid are without peer. Very expensive that is why 10% Duelund with a qualifying matching brand Clarity,or Mundorf a good example .the New Duelund Jam caps are a tremendous cap and bargain for a Duelund Cap built Like a cast except for paper housing which is better.
enough of my testing .many ways to improve your system .i am always available
to help others if they ask. Tip of the day ,buy 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean all
contats including tube pins AC connectors and everything else, Buy Stabilant 22
it is by far the best contact enhancer use on everything a thin coat and lasts for over 10 years . NASA has been using this for over a decade .my tubes sounds better for sure as well as whole system. Go to Stabilant website and read the masses of applications and clients. Happy listening !! |
Thanks! for sharing your listening experience- audioman58.
30 years and counting in this hobby for me as well. I love cables/cords and its effect on one's system. IME, this is the forgotten component. Get it right and you will be musically rewarded. Fine tuning is required.
Happy Listening!
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Human hearing is unique to the individual who possesses it.
We name things the same but we each literally see, feel and hear things individually and differently.
Similarities? Yes.
Exactness? No.
Thus, recommendations are that, and just that. Nothing more. Universality in these matters simply cannot exist.
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I just started replacing stock power cords this week so I’m glad this topic showed up. I’ve heard nice improvements with interconnects in the past, not so much with speaker cable, and I always stayed away from power cords thinking it was total snake oil. Then I read some audio forum posts saying power cords were the most important of all the cords you could replace and it turned out to be true. I’m trying the Wireworld AC cords. For the cost of one large component upgrade, I was able to take all of my components to a higher level. Really pleased with the results and surprised I went so long without trying it.
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I havd had the Duelund cables pretty decent but not in the same league .I have done direct testing several others arrested to .The best measuring tool is your ears .I have had many variations .
If you choose to not try other cables for whatever read on
That's on you . Many times people knock what they don't understand or out of added expense. .I have forgotten more then most if you will ever knowmsnd uour snide immature remarks.That is all I will say on this matter !! |
I heard it from Peter
Who heard it from Paul
Who heard it from someone
I don't know at all
I heard it from Mary
Who heard it from Ruth
Who swore on the Bible
She's telling the truth
I heard it from Simon
Who heard it from James
Confirming with Sarah
That I was to blame
I heard it from Joseph
Who heard it from John
Who said with conviction
That all hope was gone
So I need to know
Your alibis ...
...From Depeche Mode's Exciter album track 10 "Breathe"
get it? |
@audioman58 Do you have measurements to back up your claims? The skeptics/science addicts will demand objective data. Otherwise you are delusional or suffering from some other psychological malady.
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