Class D is affordable and sounds as good or better the SS/Valve why buy anything else ?

When class D finally overtakes SS VT/Valves

Will only ever happen once those who know better die off, and the majority of the audiophile population is comprised of millennials weaned on MP3s.

What’s really amusing is that anyone would pay thousands for a class D amp. The modules are cheap. Anyone with a soldering iron can construct a class D kit amp that competes with the best of what that topology has to offer - which isn’t much outside of small size and efficiency. Those claiming it has surpassed competent A/AB designs should make an appointment for an audiogram.

S&V: Generally speaking, what are the key benefits of Class D versus the traditional Class AB and Class A designs that have long been favored by audiophiles?
BP: Efficiency and therefore the ability to construct amps that are powerful for their size. Only that. Modern Class D amps, in particular mine—ahem—sound good not because they’re Class D, but in spite of it. I can’t repeat that often enough. Left to its own devices, a switching power stage tries to do just about anything except amplify audio. You choose Class D to save energy but it’s all elbow grease after that.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/bruno-putzeys-head-class-d#GOIePB6wrxqXZEAj.99

There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. 

It all depends on what you consider the role of an amplifier should be in a system. To faithfully amplify the signal it’s fed, or to add euphonic coloration, and amplify the signal it’s fed. If you enjoy the sound of your source gear as it is, then all you should want is an amplifier that faithfully amplifies the signal it’s fed. If you don’t like the sound of your source gear as it is, then you may want to add some colorations to mask the undesirable sound. Today’s best class D amps are not designed to add euphoric colorations. So to really appreciate them, you have to like the sound of your source gear.

But the problem comes because so many audiophiles have no idea how their source gear sounds. Because they have only ever listened to it through a coloured amp. So when an uncoloured amp replaces the coloured amp in their system, and they hear for the first time the actual sound of their source gear, some may not like what they hear. But do you think the blame ever goes to the source gear? Very rarely. The amps end up taking the blame for the shortcomings of the source.

There are many non-colored class AB amps that measure as flat as any class D amp. So then what's the benefit of the class D topology? Answer: efficiency, that is all.

I think the fact that for around $1K can get you the level of sound that’s only possible from $20K+ class A or A/B amps, also gives them an advantage.

Nonsense.

This is the sort of thing class D owners tell themselves so they can sleep well at night when they spent $1K on an amp that’s the same as a $50 Chi-Fi piece.

I’ve heard $30K class D monoblock amps that were trumped in every SQ metric by a $2.5K class AB integrated. I’ve owned the $3.5K Rogue Pharaoh which was embarrassed by my $400 Yamaha A-S500 in many regards, especially the bass extension.


I’ve heard class D amps from Bel Canto, NAD, Peachtree, Devialet, PS Audio, Rogue and many others. Not one came remotely close to a good tube or class A amp. Sure, they can be detailed, but dollar for dollar, that’s the full extent of their list of strengths.

I’m all for green energy. If class D amps actually sounded good, I’d certainly use them. Unfortunately, every single one I’ve encountered sounded as though the 200 to 500Hz range had been dropped 3+ db through an equalizer. Their sound never has "meat on the bones." Couple that with an overall lack of musicality and you have the signature class D sound. For the typical $1K class D amp, add "etched" highs to that description.

Funny, even the designer of Ncore said their only advantage is efficiency, yet the zealots persist with claiming class D is all-around superior.

The benefit of class D is better sound quality now and the penitential with GaN Devices to get even better,
To state the benefit of class D is just efficiency makes you sound stupid.

So you're saying the creator NCore class D is stupid. Real savvy there smart guy. 

seriously guys,  below is the mic 🎤 drop from Bruno Putzey, the creator of Hypex Ncore.

miveraaudio, why don’t we see Class D preamps in hifi? 😂

The zealots will even argue with their idols. Sad really.

Attention all class D fans! The opposition has an extremely weak case wouldn't you say??

Yet you won't address the fact that Bruno Putzey, who created NCore - regarded as one of the very best class D designs, stated that the only advantage of the topology is efficiency. He even emphasizes that notion by saying, "I can't repeat that often enough."

Here's the link for reference:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/bruno-putzeys-head-class-d

Read it a second time if necessary.
Seems to me that making a good-sounding class D amp is analogous to taking a dump truck and trying to make it handle like a Porsche. Me, I'd rather just get the Porsche in the first place.

Refer to the discussion, as a class D lover, I don’t have any knowledge to engage in technical facts! But give me some names in class A or A/B  that produce same amount of power as middle range class D amps in the same price range !

IME, the power of class D amps has always sounded weaker than lesser- specified class A and AB amps. This was also the case in the mobile audio world. One of my first jobs out of high school was installing mobile audio systems. We always had to turn the gain way up on any class D amps to get them to sound anywhere near as powerful as a similar-spec AB amp. Even then, the sound was nearly always thin in comparison.

It's funny (or maybe it's sad), even two decades ago, the manufacturers of those class D amps made similar claims to some in this thread - that their amps had finally broken the class D mold. However, all of us on the installer side quickly realized it was all puff. I worked for a large shop with multiple techs and not a single one chose class D for their own vehicles. We'd only sell them if the customer insisted on a small amp and/or had a very limited budget. Unlike the current home audio market, the cost savings of manufacturing cheap chip amps was mostly passed along to the end-user in that industry. 

A little over a year ago, I compared a Parasound H-int (240 watts/ch into 4 ohms) with a dealer's Devialet monoblocks that were rated at something over 1000 watts/channel. This was driving a pair of Maggie 1.7s to rather high SPLs. The Devialets, despite being some of the best class D I've encountered, sounded less ballsy than the Parasound.

When I owned the 350 watts/ch Rogue Pharaoh (Hypex UCD/ tube hybrid) it sounded much less powerful than my 85watts/ch Yamaha. And as previously mentioned, the Yamaha blew it away in terms of bass extension - by what sounded like a whole octave. 

This is a pattern I've noticed for at least 2 decades now. For whatever the reason, watt for watt, class D power sounds weaker in real use. It reminds me of how Japanese horsepower is often cited in car mags as feeling weaker than German power (well, that's one's easy to figure - it's really a difference in torque).

I have no personal beef with the topology. I truly hope that it will someday surpass the others in SQ, as I'm all about saving energy where practical. Unfortunately, all the ones I've encountered that a mere mortal can afford were still a long way off.

I guess you don’t understand that with efficiency comes a plethora of other advantages:

1: Size
2: Cost
3: lower energy consumption
4: Lower heat
5: Less EMI (conducted and radiated)


And due to the above advantages, possibilities open up the simply aren’t possible with conventional class A amps. Such as

1: Tight integration with DSP and DAC on same board to eliminate extensive sound quality losses from outboard DAC’s, cables, connections, preamps, buffer stages, output stages etc.

2: We can now fit absolute SOTA cool running DSP/DAC/Amp combos right in speakers to eliminate passive crossovers and speaker cables. The amp DSP can be custom tuned for each driver individually, to optimize for distortion, over-excursion, and saturation.

3: We can eliminate having to have separate enclosures for each component. And the costs involved with paying for multiple enclosures. While at the same time drastically shortening the signal path, and optimizing each sub-section to work together in absolute harmony.

The list goes on but that’s a good start.

Cost. Well, that’s certainly true: cost reduction for the manufacturers who are simply reaping the benefit in profit margins. Yup, they can put $400 worth of parts and labor into a 15lb amp and charge many thousands. If these cost savings were being passed along to the end-user then I’d agree.

Lower energy consumption, yeah, that’s basically what one would infer from the term "efficiency." Where’s Capatain Obvious when you need him?

Lower heat: well, some folks like the extra heat of their class A amps in the winter. Unless I’m shoehorning an amp into an Ikea cube, heat is a total non-issue.

Less EMI with placing the DAC inside the box??? Weird.

I’m sure my post will get deleted again by admins but I really think statements like this fall under the category of marketing for personal gain. Am I the only one who sees what’s going on here???

Yup, don't accuse anyone of marketing, especially any of the insider members, regardless of their obvious, blatant tactics, your post will be deleted.

@helomech you are spreading false statements base on ur feeling not facts! The Devialet as I remember is not a pure class D and has their own design

False statements? Sorry, the Devialets are in fact class D. Their integrateds have a class A preamp section that attempts to smooth over the typical class D sound, though based on my auditions, MY OPINION, is that it wasn't successful.

When I listen to tubes all I pickup on is the loss of resolution, high noise floor, and often buzzing sounds coming from the speakers.

This just proves you have no experience with a half-way decent tube amp. Maybe instead of postulating nonsense here, your time would be better spent gaining real experience with designs other than class D or Icepower.