classic rock lps on VPI


I've detailed in previous posts my dislike for the sound of mediocre recorded rock lps on my VPI Scoutmaster with JMW 10.5i.

I have elicited opinions about a second tt setup with a Thorens TD160 for rock recordings and VPI for the rest. I'm not sure I want to go this way.

So, in an effort to use the VPI for both types of recordings, I've returned to seeking a mod program for the VPI that will allow for pleasant listening to both the rock and the rest of my already excellent sounding lps.

I've had some very excellent suggestions for a second tonearm wand that will be used exclusively for the rock recordings. I can get it either custom wired with Cardas wire, or the standard Discovery cable. At this point I am pointing towards the Cardas, as I've heard its warmer in the mids. I also thought the Discovery cable was a bit closed in on top on my previous JMW 9 tonearm, ie. the Cardas. Any thoughts on this?

As for cartridge, at this point I'm pointing towards either a Sumiko Blue Point Special MkIII, or Denon 103R, possibly modded with wood body. My only concern with the Denon would be low compliance. May not match up well with the 10.5i tonearm? Any suggestions here?

Finally, I've had suggestions for the Mini HR-X feet, adding a bit of spaciousness, warmth, refinement. Any feedback on these?

Thanks, Scott
sns

Showing 8 responses by sns

The VPI simply illuminates all the warts of mediocre and poorly recorded lps. I want to ameliorate those warts so that classic rock records will be more enjoyable.

My table sits on a DIY wall shelf. 1200lb. capacity supports, 3" thick solid maple spiked to supports, Bright Star Big Rock sitting on maple, VPI on Big Rock.

I've tried the VPI on a Ginko base and siting on bare maple, prefer the Big Rock over either.
Dgarretson, I noticed your using a thread drive on your VPI. I just installed a thread drive on my VPI, I have it so there is minimum slippage, but I suspect higher side forces on both tt motor bearing and tt bearing because of increased tightness of thread. I notice your guide roller system, I would like to implement the same system. Is this something I could do myself, or perhaps you could supply to me?

I have yet to hear my table with the thread installed, perhaps tonight.
Thanks guys for the suggestions.

Viridian, I've heard acrylic may not always be best. I've thought about mats, Herbies or whatever, just wonder whether they will damp sound more than I like.

Dgarrretson, I've thought about a similar move to the springs, Aurios Pro Max under the Bright Star, wonder how that would differ from the springs. I know the springs are cheaper for sure. I will get back with you on the idler arm setup. Yes, I have the thread running on flat area on platter, and I do have sds. I saw your improvement on the SDS, looks very interesting. I also saw your BAM mod for Merlins, I'm running Merlin VSM-MMs with the SBAM, I may want to go there as well.

Tvad, you previously mentioned this tweak, may be very worthwhile, I will definitely check into it.

Alas, it may turn out that all my plans for the VPI may be put on hold, at least in the short run. Just a few minutes ago I was given an opportunty to possibly purchase a mint Thorens TD 124 MK.II at a damn good price. I would use my modded Rega on it, at least in the short run. From the reviews I've seen, this could be the answer for enjoyable listening to rock lps, if not all lps!
Stan, forgot about your post. I know about your dislike for Cardas cables, we differ on this one. I'm also talking about the tonearm cable, not the cable from the junction box to the phono pre.

Thanks for the offer on the Purist cable, I do like Purist, am presently using the Dominus on my digital, and formerly used the Venustas in various places in my system. I have no doubt that what you're saying about the Colossus is true.
Stiltskin, I burned the Valhalla in for perhaps 200 hours with some modded IC's connected to a cd burn in disc. High level signal is burning tonearm wiring in, perhaps I need more. Still, I"m not hearing anything in the wiring that sounds as if it needs burn in. There is plenty of impact, refinement, transparency with quality recordings.

Yes, the Thorens may not do it for me either, either way it will be interesting to compare and contrast. I just want more impact and a fuller, perhaps even darker tonal balance for the rock records. Right now, they sound so lightweight, this may be a silly analogy, but its sort of like a ballerina dancing to rock music, just doesn't add up. The VPI is polite and refined, light on it's feet. I want down and dirty, a real strong foundation for listening to my rock records.

I know a quality sub would really help my situation. Can't have one, however, got a police call with my last sub.
Stiltskin,
I am going to keep the VPI for some time, even if I get the Thorens. I going ahead with Dave's tweaks for the VPI, also in the initial stages of building his equalizer for my Merlins.

On the protractor, my only hesitation stems from the Fremer tt setup DVD, in that he uses the Wallytracker to set up a Scoutmaster tt, he then puts the cartridge on the VPI jig and everything lines up exactly.

I'm sure your correct on the tonearm cable, I will give it another 200 hours on the RCAs with cd burn in disk.

Thanks again, Scott
Spencer, as previously mentioned, they sound compressed. Lousy microdynamics, small soundstage, nothing like live music and/or quality recordings, they are simply lifeless and boring. There are no tonal imbalances or spotlit frequency abberations. I've heard the exact same variability in cds as well, so it really doesn't surprise me. Read the thread I posted on lp quality, some people more expert than I, have some interesting insights.

I did enjoy these lps more on a lower resolution setup (Thorens TD160, Sumiko Blue Point Special). I suspect this was because that setup sort of homogenized all my recordings, the good ones didn't sound as good as they were capable of sounding, the bad ones didn't sound as bad as they were capable of sounding. Sometimes resolution hurts!
I have had a number of recommendations for that AT cartridge. In the meantime I've ordered another Rega tonearm board from soundsupport.com, going to send if off to Pete Riggle for some custom fitting to his VTAF and teflon insert. I will then be able to dial in exact VTA (perhaps lower in rear to bring up bass), and I know that Rega arm likes to be loose as a goose, so the teflon insert should help here. At that point I'm at the end of the line for mods to that table. Then I get the AT or perhaps a Denon 103R. Now we might be rocking, a bit more resolution than I had previously, yet not enough to expose all the warts.